Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, No Sale

Well, it finally happened. Republicans blocked the defense authorization bill from moving to the Senate floor. This will effectively stall consideration of the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Full disclosure: I’m neither gay nor in the military. So while I don’t personally have a dog in this race I am concerned about it from a human rights stand and from a concern over having an efficient national defense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/21/collins-equates-senate-de_n_733135.html?show_comment_id=61230219#comment_61230219

Keeping qualified people out of the military based on sexual orientation is discriminatory. Getting rid of qualified people who have been outed is wrong and weakens our military. Promoting discrimination based on the excuse that it makes our military less efficient is false. That has been disproven in other militaries elsewhere. And the excuse that it makes our heterosexual soldiers uncomfortable…well, that’s just silly.

So here’s a question: do Republicans really think this was agood political move? And why? The party line is that Leader Reid was limiting the number of amendments that could be tacked on to the bill. The Democrats have characterized this move as a “procedural ruse”.

Even Republicans who support the repeal of DADT refused to break ranks with their party. An objection to procedural rules seems like a pretty lame reason to block a bill for funding of the military.

No I think this is just more ‘Party of No’ obstructionism. Keep President Obama from fulfilling his campaign promises at all costs. At least until the anticipated Republican ‘tsunami’ gets here in November. The Newt Gingrich shutdown of government is alive and well. They’re just not coming out and saying it publicly mostly because that strategy didn’t work so well the first time around. I don’t think it’s going to this time, either.

I’ll just quote Newt himself by asking Democrats, “had enough?” Get out the vote.


About Mr. Universe

Mr. Universe is a musician/songwriter and an ex-patriot of the south. He currently lives and teaches at a University in the Pacific Northwest. He is a long distance hiker who has hiked the Appalachian Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail. He is also an author and woodworker. An outspoken political voice, he takes a decidedly liberal stance in politics.
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70 Responses to Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, No Sale

  1. GROG says:

    The reason I was so intrigued with the old 538 so much and continue to be intrigued by this new site is this:The leftwing commentators don’t discus leftwing issues. All they do is bash Republicans. I’m fascinated by it.Look at the topics so far on this young site. They deal with the Tea Party, Newt, righteous babes, the Tea Party, throwing Republicans from trains, and the Tea Party.Why no discussion on how Democrats can help the country? Just curious.

  2. GROg says:

    I mean, you guys control everything. You have the White House and super majorities in Congress. Why is all your focus on the right? (I’m trying to get into the heads of the far left. Help me out here.)

  3. filistro says:

    GROG… that’s easy. You guys are way, WAY more interesting.The Dems are just boringly concerned with good governance, sensible fiscal policy and trying to fix the country’s problems.You guys, OTOH, are all about masturbation, witchcraft, Sharia law, people having sex with horses, breakaway dancing dresses, mice with human brains, tricorne hats, powdered wigs and muskets.And that’s all before lunch!

  4. Mr. Universe says:

    Well, since you asked, I’m an unabshed supporter of the majority of Obama’s and the Democrats policies. TARP did what it was intended, health care will do what it was designed to do starting on the 23rd of this month and continuing into 2013. I was a little upset at throwing the public option under the bus to try and appease you guys. I am COMPLETELY for letting the tax cuts expire for the rich, don’t believe in trickle down economics, etc. I could go on but that’s why I started a political blog. I’ll get around to other stuff.Part 2 of my response is that the Republicans really piss me off so they become the target of my criticism by default. From my perspective, what little Republican policies I have heard, I am against and it baffles me why it isn’t self evident to the rest of the country that they’re being played for suckers.We don’t have a super majority in the Senate which is why getting anything done is next to impossible. 40 is the new 60. ‘If we can’t have our way you can’t either’ is the Republican mantra. So, yes, I’m a little sensitive about holding democracy hostage.Besides, I have to think of some catchy titles.Hope that answered your question.

  5. GROG says:

    You both answered my question admirably. So this not really a blog about pro-leftwing positions, but more a blog about anti righwing positions. Fair enough.Similar to Dems running for political office this fall. They’re not running on pro Obamacare, pro cap and trade, pro stimulus, pro illegal immigration, pro mosque at ground zero, pro spending, pro tax increases, or pro debt and deficits. They’re running FROM these thing like the plague. I’m hooked.

  6. filistro says:

    @GROG… pro Obamacare, pro cap and trade, pro stimulus, pro illegal immigration, pro mosque at ground zero, pro spending, pro tax increases, or pro debt and deficitsWell, let’s see. This blog has only been really active for a week or so, and I think ALL your issues have been discussed here. Except, of course, that you have a few terms wrong. For instance, I don’t think anybody here is PRO illegal immigration…. and nobody is talking about being PRO tax increases or PRO spending. I think, however, we’ve talked about being in favor of a path to citizenship, and opposed to extending budget-busting breaks for the rich, and strongly for giving tax breaks to small business.(Just curious… what color is the air inside your bubble?)

  7. GROG says:

    I understand your positions filistro. I’m just having a hard time finding a Democrat who has mentioned in a campaign ad “Vote for me. I voted for the stimulus package.”Or “Vote for me. I’m against Arizona’s stance against illegal immigration.”Or “Vote for me. I voted for health care reform.”

  8. shrinkers says:

    @GROGI mean, you guys control everything.Yes. That’s why DADT was repealed today. And why Cap and Trade is now law. And why Gitmo has been closed. And why there are not nearly 100 federal judges waiting to be confirmed. And why HCR was so easy to pass, and didn’t need reconciliation. And why the filibuster hasn’t been used over 300 times in the last 20 months.Don’t be such an obvious ass. You know better. And so do we.

  9. shiloh says:

    apologies to asses …

  10. shrinkers says:

    So, let’s see — GROG is in favor of DADT and wants to avoid talking about it, because he’s a homophobe so is anxious to change the subject … right?

  11. GROG says:

    “Yes. That’s why DADT was repealed today. And why Cap and Trade is now law. And why Gitmo has been closed. And why there are not nearly 100 federal judges waiting to be confirmed. And why HCR was so easy to pass, and didn’t need reconciliation. And why the filibuster hasn’t been used over 300 times in the last 20 months.”And Republicans are going to make major gains in both the House and Senate. Coincidence?

  12. shrinkers says:

    And Republicans are going to make major gains in both the House and Senate. Coincidence?Not at all. The whole point of Republican obstructionism was to cause damage to America, so R’s could create the meme that Dems didn’t fix things.Rather diabolical. But then Republicans have always been interesting in ruling, rather than governing. Then health of the nation is unimportant to them. They’re all about advertising and image — not a bit about actual substance.Sorry you’ve gotten brainwashed, Groggy.

  13. Mainer says:

    Gee I don’t know Grog maybe because there are too many Republicans that voted against the Stimulus that are constantly trying to take credit for the success storys attached to it.To get on topic. DADT has become yet another sacrifice on the altar of socon TP’ers. You know the socons Bart says are not calling the shots….yeah right.Closer to home two Senators I have had great respect for over the years probably moved considerably closer to retirement today. It is pretty much a foregone conclusion that the TP or what ever they are called at the time will primary both in turn. I strongly suspect they will prevail as well. It is well known in this state that both senators have benefited from strong support from Indies and even Democrats (kind of the only way to explain some of the numbers they have racked up)so with an eye to that coming what have they been doing and did in spades today? Why of course pander to the very people that are going to take you out next time around and royaly piss of the voters they are actually going to need to hold their office. Amazing simply amazing. Many here tried to convince them of what we expected and they replied to the extent that they didn’t represent any one in this state that wasn’t far right socon. I have now spend the evening explaining to them just what it is they have done. Hard to do that with people that you have considered friends of the family for so long. I wonder if any other candidates out there would rather fall on their own political sword before they would cross the TP.

  14. filistro says:

    And as for what we tend discuss, which of these is more intriguing/baffling/newsworthy?The fact that Dems are trying to get a discriminatory and hypocritical ban on gays in the military repealed? Well, that’s hardly news. Dog bites man.But the fact that Republicans are prepared to defund the military and endanger troops in the field… just so they can continue their homophobic policies because otherwise the Tea Party won’t vote for them?Now… that’s news. A sad fact of human nature is that people behaving decently and with everyday courage is not news. People acting like idiots and displaying the worst of human nature… that’s what tends to get covered.

  15. filistro says:

    Oh damn. Shrinkers… cleanup on aisle three?…Sorry. Sorry. Thanks. I’ll stop now…

  16. shrinkers says:

    Mainer — Please make sure they understand the extent of the damage they have caused. Good luck.

  17. shrinkers says:

    Cleanup.

  18. GROG says:

    “that voted against the Stimulus that are constantly trying to take credit for the success storys attached to it.”Ah, those numerous success storys attached to the stimulus. I’m sure you didn’t list because the list is too long.You would think a Democrat somewhere would run on a platform of “success storys attached to the stimulus”. Weird how there aren’t any.

  19. shrinkers says:

    filistro — Excellent observation.Republicans, in their typical hypocritical hateful way, will put American troops at risk — to bow at the later of the social conservative homophobic Tea Party. While insisting the Tea Party is not about rightwing religious issues.The lies are so think, GROG refuses to discuss them. And I see Bart has not been barting either.

  20. shrinkers says:

    Ah, those numerous success storys attached to the stimulus. I’m sure you didn’t list because the list is too long.Indeed yes, GROG. Republican governors keep showing up at construction projects with big cardboard stimulus checks that they pretended to oppose.And GROG, what do you think of the Republicans defunding the military in order to cave in to the religious demands of the Tea Baggers?

  21. Bart DePalma says:

    “So here’s a question: do Republicans really think this was a good political move? And why?”Why not? There is no demand by the GOP constituency to repeal DADT and having the Dems fail to achieve something for one of their constituencies simply demoralizes the left base even more.”The party line is that Leader Reid was limiting the number of amendments that could be tacked on to the bill. The Democrats have characterized this move as a “procedural ruse”.”That was not the party line. Rather, it was the demand of the Maine twins and other soft Republican senators to join the Dems in stopping debate.What possible harm could opening up the bill to amendments do? The Dems could have voted them all down like they did with Obamacare and moved the bill.I suspect that the Dems did not want debate to end so they could wave the GOP obstructionism bloody shirt hoping to excite their base.Do you feel excited now?

  22. shrinkers says:

    There is no demand by the GOP constituency to repeal DADT and having the Dems fail to achieve something Yes. The Republicans are nothing but obstructionists with no interest in governing or in doing what is right for the nation. Thank you for the confirmation.Do you feel excited now?You bet your ass I do. I’m mad as hell.

  23. shrinkers says:

    Bart, do you taste your dogfood before you buy it?

  24. Mainer says:

    I suspect tomorrows in state blog sites will be pretty interesting. Pretty interesting and not kind. Sad really they have done much good before they forgot that this was Maine and that we expect our politicians to actually represent us…….intelligently. I am actually quite curious as to how wide the back splash will be. There are things in the Republican state platform that are….well unsetteling. One of the biggest losers in this could well be the Republican running for govonor. It is almost a certain that some one is going to be asking him his thoughts on this in the next 24 to 48. He is going to try to side step it or avoid it entirely but that boat sailed earlier today. So sad that Ms. Collins came off as a petulant school girl in front of the whole contry. She whinnnes about fairness and votes to kill debate on DADT????? Whisky, tango, Foxtrot.

  25. Mainer says:

    But Bart isn’t the orriginal memo number 1 that above all else play the super patriot card, you support the military better, Dems don’t like the military…..you know that one.Well except when it came to missusing the American military for totaly bogus reasons (lies), then sending enough troops to get the job done (doer on the cheap), giving them the equipmment they needed, providing them with what they needed for VA services and now depriving them of trained technicians and language specialists. Bart you and yours are nothing but a bunch of low life tools that are getting consumded by the socon tpers.

  26. shortchain says:

    In answer to GROG’s question about the content of this blog, for my part I’m interested in the problems of the day — and a major problem of the day is the right wing, which has ceased even trying to work at coming up with solutions.The strategy of the GOP has been to try and make Obama into Carter. Obama’s response has been to try and play the Clinton triangulation maneuver. Neither has been totally successful, the GOP’s both because Obama has been a little less unlucky than Carter (no hostage crisis) and because Obama’s triangulation has been so obvious and often clumsy.It’s my opinion that the sense of the people who are paying attention have internalized the understanding that the GOP’s unprecedented road-blocking is behind most of the lack of movement. Sure, it is the knee-jerk response of the right to parrot that the Democrats “have controlled Congress and the White House”, but even they don’t really believe that anymore.The growth of this perception is one of the major factors behind the increase in the GOP’s negatives, and it’s going to continue. The GOP is locked into their strategy. That’s the problem with a scorched-earth plan — there really isn’t a graceful fallback.

  27. shrinkers says:

    I think the Republicans really blew it on this one. They really overreached.The hypocrisy and hate and obstructionism could not have been made more plain.They defunded the military for two reasons:1) to obstruct the Democrats2) to kowtow to a far right wing agenda of hate and fear.Everything they have been denying is laid bare. Everything they have been claiming (support for the military, responsible governance) is shown to be a lie.This is going to anger the moderates and the independents and the base of the Democrats. It is the superb example of right wing arrogance.And Bart is such a great example of it — cannot even imagine a downside. And tomorrow he will continue his lies that the Tea Party is not about conservative religious hate.What total hypocrisy and dishonesty, so blatant and obvious the Grog has not even commented on the topic of the thread.This is going to be the straw on the camel’s back, like Gingrich shutting down the government. It will be devastating. And Bart does not see it.Welcome to the backwash.

  28. Bart DePalma says:

    shrinkers: “I think the Republicans really blew it on this one. They really overreached.”Sure.This is not even among the top 50 items folks want Congress to get done.It is not a lead story or a headline.We are in a deep recession, at war and facing the greatest expansion of government power in our history and near term sovereign insolvency – and you expect folks to give a second thought about a DADT vote?Whatever.

  29. shrinkers says:

    Bart, it’s the blatant hypocrisy and obvious blind cynicism — or unthinking hatred. You can’t cover the fact that you’re willing to screw the entire US military, either for empty political games, or for your social conservative bigotry. Either one exposes the emptiness of your “revolution.”It’s clear that the entire Republican Party lives on lies. It’s amusing that you’re blind to it.

  30. WA7th says:

    We’re all tight squishy buds ‘n all in here now, right? So I can say a little personal prayer in here, and it either won’t offend, or y’all all can skip it if it makes you feel slimey?Dear God,I guess you’ve always known all about this, but a few days after my 18th birthday, I confess to casting my first ever vote, and it was for Insane Anglo Warlord, er, Ronald Wilson Reagan (sorry, the dyslexia sometimes farles-up). I only wish it ended there, but it gets worse. I also voted for Joe Barton to replace Phil Gramm in the House and for Phil Gramm to replace John Tower in the Senate, all on the same day.God, I am sooo sooo sorry for that. Now I know I, like, totally deserve to rot in hell for all eternity for my complicity in what happened that day, if for no other reason (and we both know there aren’t any other reasons, right?). But… but… but… since that day, I’ve set down the bong long enough to move away from there and work really really hard feeding and housing those people harmed by all the trickled-on economics bullshit. Not because I get any personal satisfaction from it, or because Jesus told me to do it, but because I can’t not do it. And I get paid a little for it, too, but I render unto Caesar and all that. On the off-chance that Jesus might possibly give partial credit for eventually doing the right things, even if it’s for the wrong reasons, can I please merely rot in hell for the rest of the days I’m alive, and then maybe get some sleep? I mean, Heaven would be great and all, but I know it’s too much to ask after my supreme Texan teenage fukkup. That, and I can’t find anything in the Bible about being able to go there if you’re dead (BTW, can You please give me a clue where the hell that idea came from?). So am I still tight with Jesus, or is Jesus in me? And is that not gay, or if it is gay, isn’t it okay because you made me like that and it would be an insult to you to deny it? Just wonderin’.P.S. – There are a lot of people claiming a lot of bullshit in your name. You can understand why I don’t want to hang with them, right? Jesus, they scare the holy shit out of me. Thanks for giving FDR the line about fear its self. It gets me out the front door most mornings when I don’t really feel like it.AmenOkay, I think it’s safe to go back in the water, folks, but you might wanna put a little chlorine in and wait awhile. Or a lot of chlorine and wait awhile longer.

  31. shiloh says:

    @WAMy mom voted for Nixon in ’68 ~ I forgave her. ;)No biggie>It is interesting some of the reasons why conservatives become liberals and vice versa past the age of (40).Whereas my political ideology has never wavered …My mom’s Irish/Catholic and voted for JFK in 1960 ~ no brainer! 🙂

  32. shrinkers says:

    Thanks, WA7th. Testify, brother!

  33. shortchain says:

    Forgiven for my part, WA7th. We all make mistakes and can be fooled by fast-talking grifters. The trick is to learn from the mistakes, which you did.

  34. shrinkers says:

    It is so absurd.Bart talks about the Will of the People. Here we have an issue that 75% of the American public wants to have — repeal of DADT. And the Republicans vote down a major military appropriation to make sure it doesn’t happen.No more of your faux populism, Bart. Your talk of “liberty” and the “tyranny” of the “ruling elite” has now been revealed to be so much mouth noise. You don’t care about the “will of the voters.” You don’t even care about national defense. So much for the Tea Party being anything other than a cynical power grab. It’s not about “fiscal responsibility.” It’s about right wing ideologues using wedge issues to play political games. You’ve admitted as much, laying out your political calculus rather than appealing to any of your vaulted “principles” — principles, by the way, which, if followed, would have compelled you to support repeal of DADT and passage of this appropriations bill.Libertarians oppose DADT — the government has no right interfering in such personal matters. Supporters of limited government cannot be in favor of it. Anyone who cares about military readiness can see what DADT is doing to our fighting forces, losing some of the most qualified people because of something as irrelevant as their sexual preference. This is a religious issue only. Yet it was pushed by the Teapers, and in obedience to them, the Senators from Maine were forced to vote with the filibuster. And you pretend Teabagging is about fiscal matters.In one fell swoop, you have cynically denied everything you have pretended to support, Bart., You have revealed that your interest, and that of fellow Republicans, is only in power for your ruling elites.No concern for people, human rights, the will of the majority, national defense, responsible governance, or anything but your cold political calculus.If this vote did nothing else, it did that. It revealed the shallowness and cynicism of the Republican Party, and it gave you, Bart, a chance to embrace that, or to deny it. Thanks for finally coming clean.

  35. filistro says:

    WA7th… Hmmm… I don’t know. We might not be able to let you stay. Reagan, Gramm, and Barton, all in one day? Really, I think Barton might have been a bridge too far…Just kidding. You know, religious scholars, when asked the sensible question, “If God created everything, why did He create evil?”… always tell us He did it so we’d have a choice, and we could demonstrate virtue and moral growth by conquering our base human natures and developing to the point where we are able to consciously choose the good and eschew the evil.I assume that’s also why He created Republicans :-)As for eventual redemption for past sins; I, like you, fervently hope it can be achieved.Because I once sent a fan letter to ABBA….

  36. parksie555 says:

    Bart hit the nail on the head. Who cares about DADT? Can’t see this even moving the needle a little bit as far as how people will vote in 2010. And from Politico:In the last few days, as the likelihood of defeat became apparent, some repeal advocates also blamed Republican obstructionism, but most said the president didn’t work hard enough to keep his campaign promise of repeal, and said Reid erred by rejecting Republican requests to allow the GOP to offer amendments to the bill. Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0910/42485.html#ixzz10Gf93nW4Brilliant. Fire up your base, AGAINST YOUR OWN PARTY.Obama’s fault! Reid’s fault!I have asked this repeatedly and have not received a coherent answer yet. How could such a supposedly brilliant political team lose it’s mojo so quickly? Could it possibly now they actually like have to govern, instead of just making speeches and campaign ads? Could that be it?

  37. Bart DePalma says:

    You folks want to have an nice incendiary argument? Go read the excerpts from the new Woodward book on the Obama “war policy” (sic) and start a thread with your take.

  38. GROG says:

    Why don’t you guys talk about the other legislation that was tacked on to this bill like the DREAM act which is another shameless attempt by the left to hijack the hispanic vote? Just wondering.

  39. Monotreme says:

    @Parksie:Who cares about DADT?In the right wing echo chamber, no one. In the left wing echo chamber, quite a few people.Either brilliantly or inadvertently, Democrats waited until after Labor Day to motivate their base voters. We’ll see how that turns out in November. It appears to be working so far.I can’t tell if it’s my gut or wishful thinking, but it seems to me that the polling system is broken. Only angry people with landlines and a bad attitude seem to be responding to polls. Whether only angry people go and vote is another matter.

  40. filistro says:

    @parksie.. I have asked this repeatedly and have not received a coherent answer yet. How could such a supposedly brilliant political team lose it’s mojo so quicklyGood question. I’ve asked msyelf the same thing. But then I realize it happens to almost every administration in the first two years. They flounder, they wobble, they blunder… and then after mid-terms they either pull up their socks and start governing with mroe skill and confidence… or they become one-termers.I think the difference between campaigning and governing is like the difference between courtship and marriage. On the one hand you have romance, excitement, high emotion, the thrill of change, a bright future full of promise. And after that you have a mortgage, debt, smelly diapers, clutter, petty annoyances, unpleasant discoveries and squabbles over money. Still… marriage and Democrats are similar in that both (while difficult in many ways) are generally better than the alternative 🙂

  41. shrinkers says:

    Bart hit the nail on the head. Who cares about DADT? Who cares about where a mosque is built?The Republicans made this a big deal when they decided DADT is important enough to kill a DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS BILL over. If your guys didn’t think DADT matters, why were thy willing to do that? Why not just let DADT be repealed, if no one cares?The actions of the Republican Party certainly put the lie to any claim that DADT is unimportant.

  42. GROG says:

    “Who cares about DADT?In the right wing echo chamber, no one. In the left wing echo chamber, quite a few people.”So Monotreme, are there Democrats saying in their campaign ads this fall “Vote for me. I’m for the repeal of DADT.”? If there are, I sure haven’t seen them.

  43. Bart DePalma says:

    shrinkers:No one has killed a defense appropriations bill. Everyone knew and and the press reported this as an election year stunt. The Dems will bring up a clean bill in time to go home early to campaign.

  44. parksie555 says:

    OK filly, I guess that qualifies as a reasonably coherent answer. Although I think the main reason that administrations get straightened out halfway through the first term is the spanking that is generally administered at the polls. This does two things – reminds them who is in charge (the voters) and forces them to move to the middle to get anything done.Nice start for Doc last night, BTW. Just about wraps up a fourth straight division title for the Fightins’. Halladay is sniffing that post season like a thoroughbred coming past the 3/4 pole. What a horse he is.’Treme – polling system seemed fine in ’08. What could be wrong with it now :)? Don’t shoot Nate and Ras – they are only the piano players.

  45. filistro says:

    @GROG… are there Democrats saying in their campaign ads this fall “Vote for me. I’m for the repeal of DADT.”? We’ve moved into a political world of land-mine social issues and dog-whistle politics. NOBODY really puts out the kind of overt message you’re talking about, GROG. They all tiptoe around cautiously and get the idea across with a wink and a nod.It’s a messaging world of insinuation, not statement, and it’s pretty sleazy. I’m getting quite tired of it. It’s not really fun any more.For instance… your GOP politicians also aren’t saying “Vote for me. I’m anti-gay. I support open discrimination against 10% of Americans.”But we all still get the message, don’t we?

  46. Monotreme says:

    @parksie:Actually, the polling system had some errors in 2008. Also, the polls seem to converge on the correct result (if analyzed properly), say, by Nate Silver or electoral-vote.com , but that may or may not be because of deliberate misrepresentation.That’s what I’m saying. My gut is telling me there will be 30-40 seats gained in the House by Republicans. I don’t honestly know if that’s what I want to happen, or whether that’s what is likely to happen. I have money on it, though. As a scientist, I’m eager to see the outcome. I’ve bet money and lost on the outcome of experiments before.

  47. GROG says:

    fili,Supporting DADT is not anti-gay. If one thinks repealing DADT would harm the military, that person would be pro-military. You still haven’t explained why Dems aren’t campaigning on a pro stimulus, pro health care reform, pro cap and trade, etc….message.

  48. Monotreme says:

    GROG:You still haven’t explained why you think you should get to dictate the issues your opponents campaign on.You still haven’t explained why you expect the Democrats to run on an affirmative platform when no Tea Party-supported candidate that I’m aware of has published an action plan or platform. See O’Donnell, Christine.

  49. GROG says:

    Where did I say I get to dictate what my opponents campaign on?I’m curious as to why they aren’t campaigning on those issues. That’s all.

  50. Bart DePalma says:

    @GROG… are there Democrats saying in their campaign ads this fall “Vote for me. I’m for the repeal of DADT.”? filistro wrote: “We’ve moved into a political world of land-mine social issues and dog-whistle politics. NOBODY really puts out the kind of overt message you’re talking about, GROG. They all tiptoe around cautiously and get the idea across with a wink and a nod.”You mean no Dem outside of a deep blue district. Why are they afraid to run on what they actually believe?Perhaps this is too negative, but I would think that the GOP could run on a campaign that Dems do not mean what they say and cannot be trusted to carry out their promises.

  51. filistro says:

    @GROG: Supporting DADT is not anti-gay. If one thinks repealing DADT would harm the military, that person would be pro-military.Sure.. and supporting slavery wasn’t anti-black people. It was just pro-Southern commerce.You still haven’t explained why Dems aren’t campaigning on a pro stimulus, pro health care reform, pro cap and trade, etc….message.Because Dems are a bunch of pathetic wusses who inexplicably fear people with attitudes like the one you’ve expressed above. God knows why, it baffles me. I’m getting pretty disgusted with them. In fact if they don’t develop some backbone pretty soon and put forward candidates who’ll stand up for truth, justice and human rights, I’m going to get involved in a more tangible way with my time and money.There are some tough, top-notch leftie politicos out here in Montana who can’t be bought and don’t give a damn what the GOP says.

  52. shrinkers says:

    Bart barted,You mean no Dem outside of a deep blue district. Why are they afraid to run on what they actually believe?Perhaps for the same reason that you keep barting things you don’t actually believe. We live in a political world, and politicians make political calculations. I don’t always agree with them, but they do what they think they must.The three headed monster of FOX and the Republicans and the Teabaggers (it’s hard to tell which of these is in charge) is very good at creating a toxic environment of lies and misrepresentation. Filistro pointed out the minefield that they have made out of American politics.It’s a shame that the right wing has created an environment in which rational discussion can no longer take place. But at least you, Bart, have displayed your own embracing of that technique.

  53. parksie555 says:

    Well ‘Treme, your 30-40 prediction is not that far from Nate’s current numbers (R +45 in the House, R +6 Senate), although Nate teases us today that the Senate update tomorrow will contain some movers. My guess is WI goes to the palest red, WV goes to the palest blue (or palest red) and the blue in CA darkens. So maybe now R +7 in the Senate.

  54. Monotreme says:

    This is what I mean about Rasmussen polls seeming “wrong”:http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2010/09/22/because-you-asked-ponzi-scheme-edition.aspxI can believe that 37% of Tea Party supporters don’t know what a Ponzi scheme is. I can believe that (perhaps) 20% of likely voters don’t know what a Ponzi scheme is. Double that number? Weird.The evidence for severe close-mindedness in Rasmussen’s chosen pool of “likely voters” is amazing. I know Bart thinks these “low-information” voters (as we used to call them) are highly motivated to go vote. I disagree. I think they’re the ones highly motivated to answer Rasmussen polls on a land-line at 10 am while they’re watching “The View”.Anyway, as I said, I could be wrong. That’s why I’m looking forward to this election (and every other election) as an experiment in how good I am at “reading” the electorate.As far as specific numbers, I think it’s going to be close, but the Democrats will (narrowly) retain control of the House and Senate. Nate thinks they will narrowly lose control of the House and retain control of the Senate. Iowa Electronic Markets agrees with Nate. Electoral-vote.com agrees with me. Cook agrees with Nate. Bart thinks it’s a TSUNAMI OF EPIC PROPORTIONS. Which one of these is not like the others?

  55. Monotreme says:

    The WV and Wisconsin polls are already out. They show the Republican leading in both. See electoral-vote.com

  56. Justsayin says:

    This is for all the right wing commentators on this blog: Hey, just thought I would let you know that there are a lot of us who aren’t polled, who are just living our lives quietly, and WE ARE going to the pols in november and WE ARE going to vote democrat, and WE ARE happy that health reform got its foot in the door, WE ARE happy about cap and trade, and WE ARE happy that the economy didn’t go over the cliff and that this country’s economy is still working, WE STILL like and admire the president and last but not least we ARE STILL disgusted with the GOP, we thought it couldn’t get any worse after eight years with Bush, but WE WERE wrong, it could and it did.

  57. GROG says:

    fili said,”Because Dems are a bunch of pathetic wusses who inexplicably fear people with attitudes like the one you’ve expressed above.”I think it’s because the issues I mentioned are terribly unpopular with the American people. shrinky said:”The three headed monster of FOX and the Republicans and the Teabaggers (it’s hard to tell which of these is in charge) is very good at creating a toxic environment of lies and misrepresentation.”I love how all Shrinkers arguments always end in blaming Fox News. Man, I love this site.

  58. filistro says:

    @Justsayin…This is for all the right wing commentators on this blog: Hey, just thought I would let you know that there are a lot of us who aren’t polled, who are just living our lives quietly, and WE ARE going to the pols in november …Oh, bless you! That post warms my heart, cheers my soul and restores my faith.(Just sayin’ 🙂

  59. GROG says:

    Fili, somehow I missed this post of yours from yesterday. Absolutely hilarious. One of your all time best. The Dems are just boringly concerned with good governance, sensible fiscal policy and trying to fix the country’s problems.”You guys, OTOH, are all about masturbation, witchcraft, Sharia law, people having sex with horses, breakaway dancing dresses, mice with human brains, tricorne hats, powdered wigs and muskets.And that’s all before lunch!”I’m literally crying.

  60. filistro says:

    @GROG.. Fili, somehow I missed this post of yours from yesterdayJeez Grog… and I was talking to YOU at the time! Pay attention, eh? 😉

  61. GROG says:

    I know fili. You’re right. It’s Fox News’ fault.

  62. filistro says:

    @GROG It’s Fox News’ fault.Absolutely. That crap rots your brain…

  63. Mr. Universe says:

    The GROG wrote:Why don’t you guys talk about the other legislation that was tacked on to this bill like the DREAM act which is another shameless attempt by the left to hijack the hispanic vote? Just wondering.Well my article was mainly about DADT, but since you bring it up, the DREAM ammendment was designed to be a pathway for legal immigrants to obtain citizenship by either enrolling in college or the military. LEGAL immigrants. I really don’t see a problem with it but I’m not surprised that John McCain (whom GROG is paraphasing) hates the idea that Democrats would do something ‘socialist’ like helping their constiuents while simultaneously stimulating economic growth and filling the ranks of the military with people who support and want to defend the American way of life. Now if a Republican had brought forth this idea then you guys would think it was awesome.

  64. Mr. Universe says:

    @parksie.. I have asked this repeatedly and have not received a coherent answer yet. How could such a supposedly brilliant political team lose it’s mojo so quicklyWell, in a rare but not unexpected move, Jon Stewart agrees with you. Watch last night’s show at Comedy Central and see him slam the President for just that.But in addition to fili’s answer, I would add that the President campaigned saying he would fight for all of his campaign promises. And ‘politics ain’t beanbag’ (I have no idea what that means but I get the spirit of it). Politics is a lot of dirty pool. Elliot Ness didn’t clean up Chicago overnite and some still argue that it hasn’t been cleaned up. I don’t expect Obama to deliver overnight either but I think he has fought the fight. A few sucker punches have winded him, but we’re only in round two of an eight round fight.

  65. Mr. Universe says:

    Jon Stewart was also on Oprah recently talking about the upcoming ‘Rally to Restore Sanity’ in Washington DC on October 30th. His point to Oprah was that the majority of Americans are just busy living their lives and that the media whips the 20% of crazies into a frenzy and that’s all you ever hear about. In the 24/7 news cycles of this decade, this represents an unbalanced view of what’s really going on. And I’m not talking about just FOX, but mainly FOX. I’m prety sure they are the ones driving this non-issue of anti-Islamic sentiment clown car.

  66. shiloh says:

    @grogI love how all Shrinkers arguments always end in blaming Fox News. Man, I love this site.~~~~~~~~~~hmm, once again grog’s childish, not true hyperbole reminds all of us why everyone should ignore him as like Bart, he frequents liberal blogs only to make a fool of himself. Congrats grog on accomplishing your goal! :)btw, fixednoise has hardly been mentioned at all the past couple mos., let alone by shrinkers …take care grog

  67. Jean says:

    Here’s the social conservative evangelical Teapers game plan, as detailed by one of the socons over on redstate:Tea Party is doing things is exactly right. As someone who is Pro-Life, Pro-Marriage and Family Values, a proud Conservative on all ‘Three Legs of the Stool’, I believe that the smartest thing to emphasize right now is the spending/tax/defecit/economy issues, as they’re the biggest winners for us this political season. That doesn’t mean however, that we sacrifice our Conservative beliefs in any way. We dont nominate Murkowski/Castle Pro-abortionists, we’re nominating good Pro-Life Conservatives from California to Delaware, and once the elections are over we don’t hide from our Conservative/moral values on issues like Life and Marriage when it comes to voting in the new Congress. All the legs of the stool must be proudly represented in the Congress next year, and certainly in our 2012 nominee we must have someone who doesn’t want a ‘truce’ or want to ‘compromise’ on the important issue of Values.It appears that some of the socons want to go stealth until after the election, after which they will move forward with their so-called ‘family values” agenda.

  68. Justsayin says:

    It’s payback for all your level headed responses over the last two years. Keep up the good word.

  69. Mr. Universe says:

    Fili said;I assume that’s also why He [God] created RepublicansAnd on the eigth day God woke up a little hungover and noticed that everything was good; however, it was also a little boring. So she grabbed a handful of mud from the river and, just for fun, slung it onto the wall and decreed, ‘thou shalt go forth and be the voice of opposition to all that is logical and reasonable’.And so we’ve had division ever since. Just ask anyone from the middle east or the Tea Party.

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