Free Forum Friday October 22 Edition

Well, it’s That time of the week again. What’s on your mind?


Nate was on Rachel Maddow last night talking about the Alaska race. Joe Miller is imploding. Lisa Murkowski is sweeping in as a write-in candidate. Scott McAdams is looking like the sanest person in the room. Election night won’t be over until the wee hours of November 3. I’m personally a fan of McAdams 



Less than two weeks from the mid-term election. How do you think it will turn out?

About Mr. Universe

Mr. Universe is a musician/songwriter and an ex-patriot of the south. He currently lives and teaches at a University in the Pacific Northwest. He is a long distance hiker who has hiked the Appalachian Trail and the Pacific Crest Trail. He is also an author and woodworker. An outspoken political voice, he takes a decidedly liberal stance in politics.
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115 Responses to Free Forum Friday October 22 Edition

  1. robert verdi says:

    Lisa Murkowski is like another version of Ted Stevens, crony capitalism, pork barrel projects, and environmental positions that should drive the left batty. Miller would be a much better choice then her you may not like his Tea Party connections but she is the old style GOP, and the less of those around the happier I am.

  2. shiloh says:

    hmmMason-Dixon Beebe 59, Keet 33CNN/Time Boozman 55, Lincoln 41This proves my theory that elections have very little to do w/ideology, but disproves my theory re: incumbency. Maybe Beebe is just a lot more likable than Lincoln or maybe Arkansas is unique.>Then there’s Ohio in a very, very bad year to be a Dem:CNN/Time Kasich 47, Strickland 48CNN/Time Portman 55, Fisher 40Again, this proves my theory elections have very little to do w/political ideology, but it also proves my theory about incumbency being a plus and likability as Strickland is likable, Kasich is not, Fisher is not, plus he’s been a no show and it’s hard to have an opinion re: Portman ’cause he’s been a blank slate in the race so far ~ using the Better to keep quiet and let people think you’re a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt! strategy.Strickland has been hitting Kasich non-stop about his Wall St. connections and being pro NAFTA, which go figure, has worked well in OH.As always, elections come down to one candidate having to campaign against another and some are totally clueless er really, really bad candidates!ieCoakleyFiorinaWhitmanRand PaulMcMahonAngleJoe MillerPaladinoO’Donnelland speaking of bat shit crazy, Coons has to be the luckiest candidate this election cycle, eh. :)Thank you Bartles er teabaggers …>And again proving my ideology theory, Carter was a god awful president and candidate, almost blowing a (33) pt. lead in 1976. 1980 had high gas prices and inflation as the economy sucked. The Iranian hostage crisis had been on going for (444) days yada yada yadaand yetand yetand yetReagan only got 50.75% of the vote in 1980 and didn’t close the deal until the final weekend when the race was still a toss-up. Again the power of incumbency. A known vs. an unknown.Kinda amazing unknown African/American Barack Hussein Obama, a Muslim born in Kenya, got (((69.5 million votes))) running against a war hero and mama grizzly. ;)>And of course in a bad year for the Dems, w/Reps having a 6/7/8 to 1 money advantage nationwide, how embarrassing if Republicans don’t do well …Expectations!carry on

  3. shiloh says:

    hmmMason-Dixon Beebe 59, Keet 33CNN/Time Boozman 55, Lincoln 41This proves my theory that elections have very little to do w/ideology, but disproves my theory re: incumbency. Maybe Beebe is just a lot more likable than Lincoln or maybe Arkansas is unique.>Then there’s Ohio in a very, very bad year to be a Dem:CNN/Time Kasich 47, Strickland 48CNN/Time Portman 55, Fisher 40Again, this proves my theory elections have very little to do w/political ideology, but it also proves my theory about incumbency being a plus and likability as Strickland is likable, Kasich is not, Fisher is not, plus he’s been a no show and it’s hard to have an opinion re: Portman ’cause he’s been a blank slate in the race so far ~ using the Better to keep quiet and let people think you’re a fool, than to open one’s mouth and remove all doubt! strategy.Strickland has been hitting Kasich non-stop about his Wall St. connections and being pro NAFTA, which go figure, has worked well in OH.As always, elections come down to one candidate having to campaign against another and some are totally clueless er really, really bad candidates!ieCoakleyFiorinaWhitmanRand PaulMcMahonAngleJoe MillerPaladinoO’Donnelland speaking of bat shit crazy, Coons has to be the luckiest candidate this election cycle, eh. :)Thank you Bartles er teabaggers …>And again proving my ideology theory, Carter was a god awful president and candidate, almost blowing a (33) pt. lead in 1976. 1980 had high gas prices and inflation as the economy sucked. The Iranian hostage crisis had been on going for (444) days yada yada yadaand yetand yetand yetReagan only got 50.75% of the vote in 1980 and didn’t close the deal until the final weekend when the race was still a toss-up. Again the power of incumbency. A known vs. an unknown.Kinda amazing unknown African/American Barack Hussein Obama, a Muslim born in Kenya, got (((69.5 million votes))) running against a war hero and mama grizzly. ;)>And of course in a bad year for the Dems, w/Reps having a 6/7/8 to 1 money advantage nationwide, how embarrassing if Republicans don’t do well …Expectations!carry on

  4. Scott says:

    What’s on my mind is the Florida Senate race, particularly the interesting discussion many of my friends and I have been having of late: the choice between Charlie Crist and Kendrick Meek for U.S. Senator.One would think that progressively-minded folks would have no contest here – Charlie Crist may be playing the role of Independent, quasi-Democrat right now, but he’s going to be very much middle-of-the-road/Joe Lieberman-esque if he’s in the Senate.If you’ve seen recent polling (or any polling for the past 2 months), it’s clear that Kendrick Meek has virtually no chance save for perhaps murder chargers against both Rubio and Crist. I posed the question to many of my friends – do you vote for Crist, who has a statistically superior chance compared to Meek (albeit another longshot), in order to try to keep Marco Rubio out of office, or do you vote principles and vote for Kendrick Meek?I was shocked to learn that these friends – many of them nearly as progressive as I am – didn’t bat an eye and said that they were voting for Charlie Crist.So, I guess I pose the question – in a race like this, would you vote for your principles, or would you vote for the guy who stands the best chance to keep the one you REALLY don’t want out of office?

  5. marc miwerdz says:

    The only thing we can be sure about is that on election day,approx 12:06 eastern time,Rush Limbaugh will declare that the libs are trying to steal the election! He will also have a few callers who will speak some nonsense about ‘acorn’ and black panthers and machine breakdowns. He will do this primarily to rally the wingers but more so becaue his paranoia is deep and this will embolden the loonies to think ‘if the libs are cheatin we should be too’

  6. Mule Rider says:

    “maybe Arkansas is unique.”This sums it up right here. Arkansas Democrats are some of the few in the country that are actually sane. It’s a shame because I actually like Blanche Lincoln, but it’ll be nice to see some fresh blood in there for a change.

  7. shiloh says:

    Re: FloridaHaving Meek in the race increases the chances of electing Alex Sink.So it’s a trade-off as the senate seat is already Rep and it would be a major coup if Dems pick up FL’s governorship.Again Rick Scott has a lot of $$$ but is a terrible candidate and is as corrupt as the day is long, which is why Sink has a chance.

  8. Scott says:

    shiloh -That’s an excellent point; just that Scott is running so close to Sink in this race should be proof enough about what a toxic year this is to have that “(D)” next to your name. He’s a terrible candidate and will be a terrible governor.

  9. filistro says:

    marc miwerdz puts his finger on what I’ve beguin worrying about. There will be a price to pay for the kind of bizarre expectations hubris we see constantly from Bart and the GOP… and it will be ugly violence.By now, if they don’t get umpty-eleven seats AND the Senate, they are going to begin howling about ACORN, SEIU thugs, elections being stolen, etc… and then we will hear a lot more of this kind of stuff.A lot of it is the natural crazed paranoia of the far right, but even more is being stirred up Saint Sarah, their leader, the Queen of Victimhood, who is constantly whining about how everybody is against her, from the “lamestream media” to the terrorist loving Dems to law enforcement officials in Alaska.Self pity is a powerful opiate.Freeperville is already humming with paranoia and threats of violence. They are CONVINCED early Tea Party ballots are being discarded. They are oiling their guns and holding meetings in each other’s back sheds.It’s going to be ugly.

  10. filistro says:

    Scott… LOL!I think we fixed it :-)(Now if I could only find a way to activate my /Freeper function… 😦

  11. Bart DePalma says:

    The Gallup LV congressional generic polling has been steady for three weeks now with a range between GOP +11 for high turnout and GOP +17 for a low turnout.Under Prof. Abromowitz’ historic Gallup LV model, the top result of GOP +10 equals a 240 seat GOP majority, or +62 seats from their current 178 members.If you project up about 3 seats per % point above GOP +10 to the current figures you get a range of GOP +11 (+65 seats) and GOP+17 (+83 seats).I suspect a reasonable range for the final House results is GOP +65 to 70 seats with the possibility of more.In that kind of wave election, any Dem Senate incumbent either trailing or at 46% or less at this point is toast. Under that assumption, the GOP should win AK, FL, IN, LA, NC, OH, MO, NH, WI, WV, CO, PA, NV, KY, IL and yes CA for 51 seats. WA is close, but Murray is above 46% in most polls.

  12. shiloh says:

    Re: fixCoincidentally lol the double post is not my fault as I wasn’t sure whether my 1st post took, so I exited from the site, re-entered and it wasn’t there, so I re-posted at 7:11.That’s my story and I’m sticking to it!Must have been a minute or so delay in 538’s posting time/warp continuum>Whereas the bold in Michael Weiss Liberty or Healthcare For All? is my fault.Shit happens …Double checking tags.carry on

  13. shiloh says:

    So Bartles, you’re disagreeing w/Nate and the other nerd analysts re: the senate.Thanx, as I will save your post for further reference, eh. ;)Again, you’re lucky Nate deleted your ad nauseam nonsense er posts at the old site.btw, your demi-god Reagan is still dead, although Elvis has been seen occasionally throughout the south …take care

  14. Realist says:

    OK, Bart, you’ve been chortling along like this for weeks now. Time to put your money where your mouth is. Name your over/under for House and Senate.And how much money you’re willing to wager on the over (where the number refers to the number of Republicans).

  15. GROG says:

    shiloh said:Then there’s Ohio in a very, very bad year to be a Dem:CNN/Time Kasich 47, Strickland 48Quinipiac just released a poll with Kasich ahead 51-41. My guess is Kasich is ahead by about 5. For what reasons do you think this is a bad year for the Deomcrats?Cheney/Bush ruined the country. Republicans caused economic catastrophe. Republicans went to war in Iraq which caused bridges to fall into rivers. Republicans tortured prisoners. Terrorists want to kill us because of Republicans. The rich is getting richer and the middle class is disappearing because of Republicans.But the people are going to vote Republicans into office in droves in 11 days. How can that be?

  16. Bart DePalma says:

    Realist:At this point, my House over/under would be GOP +65. However, I am not gambling against myself.Offer your own House over/under number and maybe we can have a wager on whose number will be closer.

  17. Mule Rider says:

    “For what reasons do you think this is a bad year for the Deomcrats?Cheney/Bush ruined the country. Republicans caused economic catastrophe. Republicans went to war in Iraq which caused bridges to fall into rivers. Republicans tortured prisoners. Terrorists want to kill us because of Republicans. The rich is getting richer and the middle class is disappearing because of Republicans.But the people are going to vote Republicans into office in droves in 11 days. How can that be?”LOL@GROG

  18. GROG says:

    And oh yeah, the Republican party died 2 years ago. They “went the way of the whigs”. Remember? How can a party that died 2 years ago win seats in Congress and governorships?

  19. mclever says:

    I know it’s not quite on topic, but I had to share with fellow fans of Nate:xkcd: CorrelationAnd now back to your regularly scheduled prognostications…

  20. Bart DePalma says:

    Grog:As a Tea Party member, I hope that the GOP as it existed in 2008 is dead. What the TP is attempting to do is remake the GOP into something approximating a true conservative party.

  21. In the smoke and din of polls, prognostications, and other noise, I’d like to make a plug for a good friend and campaign veteran who is tired of the way we campaign in this country.His website is Campaigns are Dumb. As 538ers, I’d really like to know what you think. It is nonpartisan.My prognostication this week…Senate: 50 D, 48 R, 2 IHouse: 221 R, 214 D

  22. shiloh says:

    @BartlesWhat the TP is attempting to do is remake the GOP into something approximating a true conservative party.~~~~~And this worked out quite well for Goldwater in ’64 as LBJ won 61/38 …palin/o’donnell 2012take care, blessings

  23. Bart DePalma says:

    shiloh:Goldwater laid the groundwork for the Reagan realignment 16 years later.No Dem outside the deepest blue district has been able to campaign as a liberal and win since 1980.In 2010, the Tea Party is not only preaching to the center-right choir, they are to a large extent the choir itself. In a little over a week, you will hear the choir sing.

  24. GROG says:

    Bart said:As a Tea Party member, I hope that the GOP as it existed in 2008 is dead. What the TP is attempting to do is remake the GOP into something approximating a true conservative party.I completely agree. The Republican Party lost its conservative values somewhere along they way. The TP is the best thing to have happened to the Rep Party and the conservative movement since Reagan.

  25. MoldyMe says:

    WARNING: ** Cheap shot, cheap shot, cheap shot! **BDP said:In 2010, the Tea Party is not only preaching to the center-right choir, they are to a large extent the choir itself. In a little over a week, you will hear the choir sing….behind a heavy curtain, everyone singing a different song, and singing off-key …(Listen, don’t say I didn’t warn you that it was a cheap shot — but it *did* feel good.)

  26. Realist says:

    Bart and GROG,Does this mean you are both enthusiastic about O’Donnell?

  27. Bart DePalma says:

    Realist: “Does this mean you are both enthusiastic about O’Donnell?”As compared to the alternatives, most certainly. She is not the sharpest pencil in the jay, but she will be a consistent conservative vote. However, I fear Delaware will end up sending the Bearded Marxist to join the coming minority.

  28. filistro says:

    For GROG… pictures of Muslims wearing scary Muslim stuff.

  29. Realist says:

    @Bart,She is not the sharpest pencil in the jay, but she will be a consistent conservative vote.I don’t fault someone who votes consistently conservative, provided they understand the underpinnings. She clearly does not, and the lack of critical thinking makes anyone dangerous, whether liberal or conservative.You’d really prefer a non-thinking conservative to a thinking moderate or liberal?

  30. GROG says:

    Thanks for the link, fili.I’ll post pictures of black guys so NPR will know who fire if one of their commentators expresses a natural human emotion. Since Juan was the only black journalist they had, they will find the pictures useful. When the white Nina Totenberg said on NPR that she hoped Jesse Helms and his grandchildren contracted AIDS, she wasn’t fired. Apparently, that comment WAS up to their journalistic standards.

  31. shiloh says:

    @grogCheney/Bush ruined the country. Republicans caused economic catastrophe. Republicans went to war in Iraq which caused bridges to fall into rivers. Republicans tortured prisoners. Terrorists want to kill us because of Republicans. The rich is getting richer and the middle class is disappearing because of Republicans.~~~~~Indeed, as I would just add national security experts cheney/bush were caught w/their pants down on 9/11 hence, therefore, ergo the WTC Twin Towers were totally destroyed. How embarrassing for neocon chicken hawks!You’re doing a heck of a job, Brownie as Katrina lay waste to New Orleans and Bush played air guitar in San Diego during a national disaster.For your amusement and future reference, here’s what Bush has said about bin Laden at various points in time, depending on how he was trying to spin things:”The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him.” ~ G.W. Bush, 9/13/01″I want justice…There’s an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, ‘Wanted: Dead or Alive,'” ~ G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI”…Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he’s maybe in control of a cave. He’s on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we’re going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that’s what’s happening. He’s on the run, if he’s running at all. So we don’t know whether he’s in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open — we just don’t know….” ~ Bush, in remarks in a Press Availability with the Press Travel Pool, The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on official White House site“I don’t know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don’t care. It’s not that important. It’s not our priority.” ~ G.W. Bush, 3/13/02″I am truly not that concerned about him.” ~ G.W. Bush, responding to a question about bin Laden’s whereabouts,3/13/02 (The New American, 4/8/02)~~~~~grog, maybe “we” should write a book, but we’ll leave out the chapters re: 2001/2009 …and just concentrate on Bush being born w/a silver spoon, his alcohol problem, his (3) failed business attempts funded by Saudi Prince oil $$$ etc.Tentative title: 100% Embodiment of “The Peter Principle” ~ George W. Bush>btw grog, maybe you and your buddies can see it in your hearts to send Bush a few bucks ’cause it was just reported he misses being pampered 24/7Just sayin’take care>Bartles, Goldwater laid the groundwork for the Reagan realignment 16 years later.Surely one can come up w/a better nonsensical deflection than that …Or not!solo estoy diciendotake care Bartolo

  32. WA7th says:

    FWIW, I have hung up this month on pollsters calling both my home phone and my cell phone multiple times.Sorry, folks. I know it’s a sacreligious thing to admit around here, but old habits die hard, and dinner is my sacred cow (sometimes literally). If I did take the calls, I would be very tempted to lie to them.

  33. Mule Rider says:

    “When the white Nina Totenberg said on NPR that she hoped Jesse Helms and his grandchildren contracted AIDS, she wasn’t fired. Apparently, that comment WAS up to their journalistic standards.”I’m hoping someone (with way more time on their hands than me) goes through and catalogues every instance of an NPR correspondent/journalist/whatever that can be interpreted as derogatory/homophobic/etc. towards Christians, Republicans, conservatives, whites, etc. where that person WASN’T fired, just like the example you brought up. Shame them and disgrace them until they fold like a flimsy piece of paper. I’m hoping the new Congress cuts off federal funding for NPR immediately.

  34. Mule Rider says:

    should be “derogatory/bigoted”

  35. GROG says:

    shiloh,We forgot about how Republicans created hurriances and caused the oceans to rise. (Duh!)

  36. shiloh says:

    btw, Bartles as my last post was 2998 characters 🙂 Reagan totally embraced the evangelical religious right, something Goldwater would have never done!It’s “the Godfather of Conservatism” who said:# “I am a conservative Republican, but I believe in democracy and the separation of church and state. The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet that people have the right to live life as they please as long as they don’t hurt anyone else in the process.”(in a 1994 Washington Post essay)# “The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others,”# “I don’t have any respect for the Religious Right.”# “Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell’s ass.”# “A woman has a right to an abortion.”~~~~~“There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God’s name on one’s behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in ‘A,’ ‘B,’ ‘C,’ and ‘D.’ Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate.I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of ‘conservatism.’ ” (1909-1998) US Senator (R-Arizona) Source: Congressional Record, September 16, 1981“A lot of so-called conservatives don’t know what the word means. They think I’ve turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That’s a decision that’s up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right.”Goldwater concluded with a warning to the American people. “The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others, unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy.”They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives. We have succeeded for 205 years in keeping the affairs of state separate from the uncompromising idealism of religious groups.’nuf said!Your turn Bartolo 🙂

  37. Bart DePalma says:

    Realist:I would vote for any name out of the phone book who had an IQ above room temperature who would reliably vote to limit government over Coons or any of his equivalents who would continue the present destructive policies.

  38. shiloh says:

    @grogWe forgot about how Republicans created hurriances and caused the oceans to rise. (Duh!)~~~~~Liberals have empathy so I’m cutting cheney/bush some slack. Hopefully they can redeem themselves before they meet the pillars of hell er den of iniquity er eternal damnation!Just sayin’

  39. Bart DePalma says:

    What does Goldwater’s secularism have to do with the price of coffee?

  40. Mule Rider says:

    Restricting abortion is not necessarily about imposing religious dogma on people.

  41. filistro says:

    Bart… please stop being so ignorant. You are really beginning to annoy me.Chris Coons has never had a beard, nor has he ever been a Marxist. His “bearded Marxist” joke was along the lines of “I wasn’t that far left, but compared to those other guys, I was a bearded Marxist”… an among-friends joke that he later expanded to the title of a piece about his college days.It’s akin to me saying, “Compared to Bristol Palin, I am a prima ballerina.” Sheesh. What a bunch of shameless crapola artists you guys are.

  42. GROG says:

    @Mule Rider,To NPR, Juan Williams did the unforgiveable. He worked for Fox News. Firing Juan Williams was the dumbest possible thing NPR could have done. Republicans have been calling for their funding to be stopped for years because they’re a far left, hack news organization. Now they have put an even bigger target on their backs just in time for a new Republican controlled Congress to take over.

  43. Scott says:

    “It’s akin to me saying, “Compared to Bristol Palin, I am a prima ballerina.” “Thank you for my first LOL moment of the day. 🙂

  44. shiloh says:

    Bartles, Bartles, BartlesI would vote for any name out of the phone book who had an IQ above room temperature who would reliably vote to limit government over Coons or any of his equivalents who would continue the present destructive policies.as Bart continues w/his whining, cry me a river hyperbole, eh.“Our Republic Has Stumbled, But Has Not Yet Fallen”My descriptive phrases do not begin to do justice to the damage these policies are doing to the country.April 23, 2010 10:46 AMI wonder whether I live in America anymore when the government imposes its will in opposition to the people. That is what ruling classes do, not representatives of the people.May 2, 2010 4:21 PM ~~~~~May I suggest switching to “decaf”>and Bart that was truly a pathetic deflection re: Goldwater …but typical.Congrats! ;)btw, notice how Bartles: What does Goldwater’s secularism have to do with the price of coffee? gets really indignant er flustered lol when he has totally lost the argument.let me repeat …notice how Bartles gets really indignant er flustered lol when he has totally lost the argument.and his post(s) get really short also when he’s totally discombobulated! :)solo estoy diciendotake care

  45. Monotreme says:

    Sometimes I fail at embedding HTML.Here is the link for “Rachel Enters a Contest”.http://huff.to/b3IQJJ

  46. filistro says:

    @Scott.. Thank you for my first LOL moment of the day. If you ever saw me dance, you’d KNOW how LOL it really is… 🙂 (Although I do look pretty fetching in a gorilla suit… )But then I’ll run for office someday and Bart And Buddies will indignantly rage that “furthermore, filistro has falsely claimed a background as a prima ballerina, proving her inherent dishonesty!”They’re just shameless. Really.

  47. Scott says:

    But then I’ll run for office someday and Bart And Buddies will indignantly rage that “furthermore, filistro has falsely claimed a background as a prima ballerina, proving her inherent dishonesty!”If you ever run on a prima ballerina platform, I will move to that district and vote for you. Mark that down.

  48. Mule Ridere says:

    @GROG,Agreed.

  49. filistro says:

    @Scott prima ballerina platform Vote for prima ballerinas! They stay on their toes!They’re tutu good!Prima ballerinas: arabesque choice.(Okay, I’ll stop now… 🙂

  50. shiloh says:

    “Tippecanoe and Tyler too”

  51. Scott says:

    Maybe all this talk about ballerinas is why we’re going to get trounced in 2 weeks.The conservatives stay on message with calls of, “I’d vote for a zebra as long as it has an (R) after its name.”I get distracted from a serious discussion about whether or not Barry Goldwater was good for the conservative movement with thoughts of campaigning ballerinas.

  52. filistro says:

    @Scott.. Maybe all this talk about ballerinas is why we’re going to get trounced in 2 weeks.You’re probably right. It’s always possible to get a chuckle out of a liberal, no matter how dire the situation.Wingers, OTOH, are pretty humorless. Imagine how dull the world would be if they were in charge of everything. Liberals would have to sneak away and hide in underground caverns where they would huddle together secretly and tell jokes… and face strict punishment if caught giggling in public.

  53. shiloh says:

    LA-Sen: Vitter 48, Melancon 45Louisiana Rep. Charlie Melancon has closed rapidly on Republican Sen. David Vitter, narrowing the incumbent’s lead to just 3 points in his own campaign polling. Vitter has just a 48 percent to 45 percent lead over Melancon, according to an Anzalone Liszt survey, and pollsters John Anzalone and Zac McCrary note in a memo: “Undecided voters give Melancon a better job rating than they do Vitter – and are warming to Melancon as the election nears, while cooling on Vitter. Vitter’s initial funding advantage allowed him to out-communicate Melancon for much of the campaign … If Melancon is able to finish with a strong paid communications presence, Louisiana is poised to elect a new senator.” That’s a big “if” for Melancon, who has been at a heavy financial disadvantage throughout the election. But like other competitive Senate races, this one appears to be tightening: Vitter’s lead was at 7 points last week and at 13 points last month, according to Melancon’s polling.Lewison at kos: I guess that even in Louisiana it’s a problem if you’re a U.S. Senator and the single thing that you’re best known for is the fact that you were a patron of the D.C. Madam’s call girl ring. Obama hatred runs so deep in the state that Melancon could hardly be called a favorite to win, but his chances have to be somewhere north of 0% — even if only slightly.~~~~~Of course it helps that Melancon is more conservative than Ben Nelson 😉 but still …

  54. Bart DePalma says:

    Fillistro: What is “ignorant” about using Coon’s own self description – joking or no? Coons called himself a “bearded Marxist” when compared with the 1985 GOP fresh off its second landslide presidential victory. In sum, Coons self identified himself as far left (if not actually Marxist) and quite outside the mainstream. After the last round of tax increases Coons inflicted in New Castle County in 2010, I doubt Coons has changed his views much.

  55. Bart DePalma says:

    Shiloh:Why would I be angry at your posts about Goldwater? I simply used a colloquialism to ask what they heck they had to do with the 2010 election which (along Fili’s ballet career), appear to be the subjects of this thread.

  56. shiloh says:

    Bart, Coons will win easily and o’donnell will find another race in 2012 to make a fool of herself! and fund her no private sector job lifestyle.Let’s move on beyond the ad nauseam minutiae, shall we …take care

  57. shiloh says:

    Bartles, when one is in a never ending deflection hole stop deflecting er digging …Or not.solo estoy diciendotake care, blessings

  58. Bart DePalma says:

    Sean Trende over at RCP has a good analysis of the so called LV polling that is weighting the composition of the electorate as if it were 2006 and 2008 and nothing like the electorate which actually showed up in VA, NJ and MA less than a year ago. When you apply the 2009/2010 turnout weightings, many of the Dem media polling (as bad as it is for Dems) is still probably undercounting the GOP vote by 3-4%.http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/10/22/whos_going_to_vote_this_year_107686.html

  59. filistro says:

    @Bart… : What is “ignorant” about using Coon’s own self description – joking or no? You and I have chatted in the past about your penchant for name-calling, Bart. It is immature and unpleasant, and reveals an adolescent mentality. However, my main objection is this: the names you choose to use to mock and belittle your opponents are never original. Porkulus, cap-and-tax, Obamacare, bearded Marxist… you just pick up something that’s already out there and repeat it incessantly, as if that will somehow sway opinion or impress anybody.For a person who aspires to be a writer, you really must learn that editors LOATHE the facile cliche. The way you routinely express yourself in this forum would get your ms. tossed into the wastebasket without a second glance.

  60. Mule Rider says:

    “Obama hatred runs so deep in the state”Wow. Talk about over-the-top moonbat projection/deflection…Since when can we not simply disagree without it automatically being the result of hate, evil, or racism?

  61. Bart DePalma says:

    filistro:I compose my writing and speaking for the audience. When writing a legal brief, I put on my lawyer hat and write in a way expected by the court. When writing an op-ed for a paper, I adopt the style of editorials. However, when I post on mudslinging political blogs, I have no problem using widely used political nicknames for people and programs. A rather minor vice on lefty blogs where I am often called every name under the sun in far more colorful terms.I am still uncertain how you can view terms like Obamacare, Cap & Tax or even the Porkulus as “name calling.” Obamacare simply attributes the health insurance legislation to its author.Cap & Tax is an accurate description of the legislation at issue, which caps and taxes CO2.Similarly, if a bit more contentiously, Porkulus is an accurate description of an $800+ billion dollar spending spree dominated by a series of giveaways to various Dem constituencies – pork by any other name.In contrast, I would be engaging in name calling if I called Obama any of the number of delightful names many here have applied to O’Donnell, Angle and Paul.BTW, publishers not only consider books and articles using political nicknames, they publish them in great numbers because there is a rather large audience for political polemics on both sides.

  62. Scott says:

    Briefly changing subject (sorry)…But I just noticed that two more PA Senate polls show that race closer than it was a few months ago. Morning Call has it tied and Rassmussen has Toomey +4 after having him +10 last time. That’s about 6 or 7 good results for Sestak in a row.Baby steps, right?

  63. Bart DePalma says:

    Dem and GOP pollsters Peter Hart and Bill McInturff give an extended interview with a refreshing lack of spin on what they are calling a Hurricane Election:http://online.wsj.com/video/the-big-interview-pollsters-hart-and-mcinturff/BDE78A63-FEBA-4873-B7F2-AF1869C93DD6.html

  64. shiloh says:

    @Bartname calling ~ O’Donnell, Angle and Paul~~~~~hmm, let’s add palin, paladino, bachmann, joe miller etc. to the list w/out mentioning what they called fellow Reps in their very own primaries, eh.Glass house aside …Again, the irony of Bartles talking about mudslinging after 2008 to present day all the ad hominems thrown at our current, freely elected president.>Again, please review what bachmann, palin, miller, o’donnell, angle, paul, called et al teabagger, non establishment conservative candidates called their opponents in the Rep primaries.And can someone please explain to me how mama grizzly 😉 is a non-establishment candidate lol after she was McCain’s v-p.>Re: this blog, as others have mentioned, check out redstate/freeperville and get back to us Bart.For the record, I enjoy Bart’s over the top whining hyperbole 😉 as it’s somewhat entertaining in a poor loser 🙂 kinda way. Also, have never expired to be a writer, but if I did, wouldn’t be a fiction writer like Bart, ’cause hey, truth is stranger than fiction!btw Bartles, no one is forcing you to be here or at the old blog, soooo you must enjoy the company as again “we” are interesting/entertaining and conservative winger trolls, not so much.and so it goes …take care, blessings

  65. You forgot the next sentence, Bart:However both Hart and McInturff believe President Obama is the Democrats’ greatest strength in the home stretch.So the hurricane (which I agree exists) is not directly related to Obama. How to you square this up?

  66. shortchain says:

    It’s pretty obvious from looking at the polls and comparing those for Congress with those for the President that Obama is not considered “the author” of the health insurance reform act.In fact, it’s a pretty damning act of dishonesty — as well as amusing to me — for anyone to characterize Obama as “the author” of a bill that wound its way through both houses of Congress in the fashion this one did.

  67. shiloh says:

    aspired, not expired lolcarry on

  68. shrinkers says:

    I seriously and honestly hope that if the Republicans win control of the House, that they really run the table. If they gain the House, I want them to have a landslide (it would actually be more of a mudslide), a huge 100+ seat win. I’d want them also to take the Senate.With only a slim House majority, they won’t be able to do much, other than simply shutting things down. With big majorities, and particularly with the Senate also, they’ll be emboldened. We must keep in mind the number of truly insane and witless people who would get into Congress if there really was this kind of biblical-level disaster Bart is predicting.Imagine the damage these people would do. Obama would veto most of it. But bills repealing HCR, shutting down Medicare, privatizing Social Security, spending tens of billions on building the Great Wall of Mexico, outlawing abortions, gutting public schools and Pell grants, outlawing homosexuality, perhaps outlawing labor unions … the mind boggles.America needs to see the true nuttiness of this crowd. We need to have them stand in the sunlight with no place to hide. These people are so patriotic that they want to secede from the Union, so populist that the love having enormous foreign corporations influencing our elections, so fond of the Constitution that they want to write their religious beliefs into law, so anxious to create jobs that they want to encourage American businesses to move overseas, so rational that they deny science and substitution political and religious orthodoxy.There is no way to reveal their insanity unless they’re in power, since they are so very skilled at advertising and spin. Eight years of them in power gve us Barack Obama. They promise now to be different, like an abusive alcoholic spouse — and America, like a battered wife, seems tempted to accept them back. The only way to see them as they are is to let them have their way for two years.Eight years of Bush gave us Obama. What will two years of Teapers give us?

  69. shrinkers says:

    @shortchainIn fact, it’s a pretty damning act of dishonesty — as well as amusing to me — for anyone to characterize Obama as “the author” of a bill that wound its way through both houses of Congress in the fashion this one did.That is, of course, how the Barts of the world work their wiles. Honesty is not in their toolbox.

  70. Michael Weiss says:

    OK, Bart, I draw the line here:”Similarly, if a bit more contentiously, Porkulus is an accurate description of an $800+ billion dollar spending spree dominated by a series of giveaways to various Dem constituencies – pork by any other name.”Your ingorance is perfectly acceptable in a vacuum, but I wrote a lengthy article on this very topic, to which you chose to give short shrift in response. You want to talk about it as being pork? Bring it on (in the comments section for that article; I want to keep it where it makes sense).But you’d better bring more than blather with you to that battle. Explain which parts of the ARRA are pork, and why. And be ready with data to back it up.

  71. shrinkers says:

    @Michael Weiss You don’t understand. It was a bill enacted by a Democratic Congress. By definition, that makes it pork. Republicans do not require logic or data.

  72. Monotreme says:

    Home only 48 hours, Bart has managed to piss off both Filistro (The Most Patient Woman in the World) and Michael Weiss.

  73. shrinkers says:

    @MonotremeThat’s the thing. Bart, being a lawyer, doesn’t actually care about truth. It’s about what he can convince people to believe. And being a conservative, this is doubly so. Ideologues do not need to have contact with reality. It’s all about pushing an agenda. It’s about winning, not about doing anything practical or good or productive.He is convinced he’s on the verge of winning. Of course, being a conservative and a lawyer, he’s incapable of actually taking a long view. If indeed the GOteaPers win a controlling interest in Congress, they are going to make such a total mess of things that the blowback will be incredible.Bush, and even Cheney, look like moderates compared to the current clown-crop. We thought the last group of Republicans screwed up the world? We ain’t seen nothin’ yet.

  74. WA7th says:

    Since no one else wants to defend NPR from the insults earlier in the thread, well, neither do I. I like NPR. I listen occasionally, I have no problem cutting off their federal funding. I have no problem with funding for public broadcasting, I just suspect that NPR would do better in the long run without it, and local public radio would be helped by it.As far as their firing JW, he wasn’t an employee, he was under contract. If NPR violated his contract, they owe him the future value of the contract. If not, they don’t.They’re openly threatening to to fire anyone who is seen the Stewart/Colbert rallies next week. Fine, they claim it has always been their policy to fire any NPR representative for even attending any political rally of any kind. Why, then, did they not fire the guy simply for appearing on Fox as soon as he did it once?Now they should fire the lady who fired him for not firing him sooner, and for saying anything at all about why he was fired. Then, they should proudly announce that they will forgo any government funding in the future.

  75. Jean says:

    fili,The words of a former Republican describe the differences best:”Liberals and conservatives not only take different positions on different issues, they actually think differently.Liberals have their ideologies too, but they are not nearly as controlling as they are for conservatives. Liberals are far more pragmatic and problem-solving, far more willing to go where the facts take them and thus far more willing to compromise. Debate, dissent and non-conformity are liberal values, part of their DNA.Today conservatism has fallen back on slogans and buzz words to do the heavy lifting in place of actual arguments and ideas. Conservatives value group solidarity and conformity and the belief-systems that go with them. When speaking to or writing for a conservative audience it was always important to couch language in the vague abstractions of ideology — “values.” That is why you will hear so often from Newt Gingrich, Fox News and others on the far right that for Republicans to be successful all they need to do is “get back to conservative principles.” And that is why, in terms of actual policies and proposals, conservative arguments so often dissolve into mush. You will never hear a liberal talk that same way.The GOP base is composed of Christian fundamentalists in the social sphere, laissez faire free market fundamentalists in the economic sphere and neo-conservative ideologues in the foreign policy sphere. Each of them have their own ideologies that make modern Republicanism almost like a religion, and in some cases literally so. At the same time that the Republican base is wedded to belief systems that foreclose compromise or even debate. Conservatives and Republicans know that our liberal democratic tradition expects deliberation, debate and compromise. So, to overcome the cognitive dissonance they invent fairy tales in which conservatives pretend they would be more than willing to govern in a bi-partisan fashion if only Democrats would let them.The GOP’s idea of bi-partisanship is for a liberal Democratic president to govern like a right-wing Republican. Anything else will provoke a filibuster and total obstruction. There is no real interest in working productively with Democrats, and on rare occasion when someone like Lindsey Graham does, they are shouted down as RINO traitors and are threatened with being run out of the party. Yet, to cover up this obstinancy Republicans have to invent tall tales of Democratic extremists being held off by a beleaguered and outnumbered band of brave Republicans. Conservatives who bemoan the decline of civility and compromise are expressing the outrage they feel when liberals have the effrontery to challenge the conservative beliefs that they hold so dear and which they can not abandon or even compromise on without giving away an important part of who they are. Everyone they know believes the same thing.”

  76. WA7th says:

    If you haven’t seen the Echo ad, check it out. It’s very well done.

  77. shiloh says:

    Generic LV:Newsweek ~ 10/20 – 10/21 ~ LV 48/45 ~ Dems +3Obama Job Approval:Newsweek ~ 10/20 – 10/21 ~ 54/40 ~ Obama +14My oh my oh my lol as all that winger billionaire, foreign govt. slush fund $$$ down the drain! 😉So it shall be written, So it shall be done!carry on

  78. Scott says:

    I try not to go ga-ga over one poll like this – let’s be honest, it’s the first one that’s said anything at all like this.Still, though… I like a bit of good news to start my weekend. 🙂

  79. Bart DePalma says:

    The Real Mike Is Back wrote: “…both Hart and McInturff believe President Obama is the Democrats’ greatest strength in the home stretch. So the hurricane (which I agree exists) is not directly related to Obama. How to you square this up?”Both pollsters assume that the Dems have lost the Indis and their only chance at avoiding a historic catastrophic loss is to motivate their base of minorities and young folks to get out and vote. Enter Obama.shortchain wrote: “In fact, it’s a pretty damning act of dishonesty — as well as amusing to me — for anyone to characterize Obama as “the author” of a bill that wound its way through both houses of Congress in the fashion this one did.”Dude, the Obama Administration and the Dem congressional leadership had decided upon the elements of Obamacare and cut deals behind the scenes with the health insurance and pharma industries by Spring of 2009. The only things that really changed in the bill were dropping the public option for a dramatically expanded Medicaid and sharply lowering the penalties for the individual mandate. Team Obama signed off on both changes. Obamacare is Obama’s baby.Michael Weiss: “I wrote a lengthy article on this very topic, to which you chose to give short shrift in response.”No, this blog kept eating my responses in a moderator black hole. To sum up my responses:1) The so called tax cut was actually a temporary series of micro welfare payments made to anyone with a job regardless of whether or not they paid taxes. (BTW, SS and Medicare contributions are not taxes, they are contributions dedicated to those programs and the Porkulus did not cut those contributions.) Giving away cash to buy votes is the purest form of pork.2) The next largest pile of pork was the massive bailouts to state governments so they would not cut Dem programs like Medicaid or fire Dem unionized state workers.3) The next largest pile of pork was to finance Obama’s new green energy industrial policy according to a plan put together by the Dem Apollo Alliance and the Blue Green Alliance. The Apollo Alliance website actually has a side by side comparison of its plan and the President’s expanded plan.4) Only a bit over 10% of the Porkulus was dedicated to traditional infrastructure projects which had any redeeming economic value. Now Obama has admitted that this was largely a farce as economic stimulus because there were no shovel ready projects ready to go. He lied about that. Indeed, Obama lied about nearly all of this initiatives.

  80. Monotreme says:

    Barted:No, this blog kept eating my responses in a moderator black hole. To sum up my responses:Bullshit, Bart. I was the one who had to go in and retrieve your blather, in the interests of Free Speech.You will find it all here:http://blog.538refugees.com/2010/10/05/rearranging-the-economy.aspx#CommentMy comments often end up in the Spam filter as well, and I have to go retrieve them. I don’t understand why the software does it, but I have the good taste not to come on here and whine (or, more properly, whinge) about imaginary slights.And if you had the slightest bit of respect for what the others on this blog are telling you, you’d quit using terms like “Porkulus” when several of us have pointed out how counterproductive and puerile but most of all jejune this method of commenting is.

  81. Bart DePalma says:

    Nate’s House model keeps turning deeper red:”This is the first time we have published a forecast putting the Republican over-under line at a number higher than 50 seats.As we remind our readers with each update, there is considerable uncertainty in the forecast. Democrats have a 20-percent chance of holding the House — but Republicans have a 30-percent chance of winning at least 60 seats, a 12-percent chance of winning at least 70 seats, and a 3-percent chance of winning 80 or more seats. We would advise against interpreting our forecast as a prediction that Republicans will win some particular number of seats. Instead, it should be thought of as being equivalent to a point spread.”

  82. shiloh says:

    @MonotremeBullshit, Bart~~~~~Again, Bartles exaggerates about everything, even his moderated posts lol.but, but, but that’s what whining winger trolls do at progressive blogs.Just sayin’

  83. shiloh says:

    BartlesAs we remind our readers with each update, there is considerable uncertainty in the forecast.>We would advise against interpreting our forecast as a prediction that Republicans will win some particular number of seats.take care, blessings

  84. shrinkers says:

    Jean The words of a former Republican describe the differences best:Thank you for that wonderful quote! Right on the money. I can think of no way to improve on that.

  85. shrinkers says:

    @Bartthe Obama Administration and the Dem congressional leadership had decided upon the elements of Obamacare and cut deals behind the scenes with the health insurance and pharma industries by Spring of 2009. We assume you have proof for this statement. Please supply details of the meetings, who was present, what was decided when, etc.The next largest pile of pork was the massive bailouts to state governments so they would not cut Dem programs like Medicaid or fire Dem unionized state workers.We truest you also have proof of this tit-for-tat. Presumably you have copies if the signed agreements, or some other evidence for the malfeasance you are alleging. I trust you will immediately supply it.The next largest pile of pork was to finance Obama’s new green energy industrial policy according to a plan put together by the Dem Apollo Alliance and the Blue Green Alliance. The Apollo Alliance website actually has a side by side comparison of its plan and the President’s expanded plan.This sounds like an easy one for you to provide evidence for. Then also tell us why it is bad, because that escapes me.The so called tax cut was actually a temporary series of micro welfare payments made to anyone with a job regardless of whether or not they paid taxes.That yo choose to call them “welfare payments” does not explain your contention that they provided no assisstance to the economy. I trust you will explain your reasoning.BTW, SS and Medicare contributions are not taxes, they are contributions dedicated to those programs and the Porkulus did not cut those contributions.So, taxes which go to particular programs are not taxes? An interesting idea. So the funds collected under the new Health Care Law, we assume, are not taxes either. You are correct that the taxes which fund SS and Medicare have not been cut. America wants those programs to continue. What does this have to do with the Stimulus package?Only a bit over 10% of the Porkulus was dedicated to traditional infrastructure projects which had any redeeming economic valueIt is interesting that you see this as a criticism, because you are opposed to infrastructure projects. If you were honest, you’d be praising the package for this. Obama lied about nearly all of this initiatives.Again, I trust you will now provide proof of this statement.

  86. Michael Weiss says:

    Bart, I trust you will repost your explanation of your “Porkulus” accusation in the “ReARRAnging the Economy” article as I asked. Once you do, I will reengage you on this topic.

  87. Bart DePalma says:

    Do you read the news at all?

    On the Spring negotiations with industry over PPACA: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/07/white-house-confirms-deal_n_254408.html

    On the purpose of the state bailouts, read any speech by Obama on the subject – saving teachers/firefighters and maintaining services. CO put its money into funding the Medicaid black hole.

    Go to the Apollo Alliance website for a blow by blow on the Obama green industrial policy which they authored. I would think that pissing away billions of dollars on government dependent factories making $30,000 batteries with a range of less than 100 miles for $100,000 electric cars without any substantial consumer demand is self evident economic insanity of the highest socialist order.

    SS and Medicare taxes are contributions into social insurance programs. By law, this money cannot be diverted to other purposes, although our corrupt government borrows from excess contributions. I am unaware of any dedicated Obamacare tax. Rather, the Dems simply added a hodgepodge of new taxes to the PPACA bill to create the illusion it would not add to the deficit.

    Finally, I have no real problem with spending more than the amount dedicated by the ARRA on infrastructure. However, that money should be offset by cuts elsewhere in the welfare state.

  88. Bart DePalma says:

    Michael: I would enjoy corresponding with you at your thread, but I am not going to lose several pages more worth of work to the moderation function on that thread, even if Mono retrieves it some days later.Speaking of the moderator black hole, could someone retrieve my response to shrinkers here?

  89. shiloh says:

    Bartles, nobody is forcing you to be here as you’re free to leave at any time, especially since one has been losing all his debates recently, as per usual …Your moderation excuse having become so trite!Indeed, you must enjoy losing as indicated by the 2006/2008 elections, eh 😉 or again more likely, you just can’t help yourself lol as you are addicted to “our” little liberal site, since winger sites are a :::zzz:::take care, blessings 🙂

  90. Michael Weiss says:

    Bart, if you’re that worried about losing your text, might I suggest liberal (!) use of the copy and paste functions of your computer? And perhaps a simple text editor (Notepad works fine if you’re using Windows).I use those when I’m constructing a large response that I don’t wish to lose.

  91. Bart DePalma says:

    Michael:After losing the first 1500 word response on your thread, I did start saving the posts on my word processor. However, that did not solve the underlying problem on that thread of not being able to post.If you would like to debate whether the Obama spending spree was stimulus or pork, may I suggest that you simply start a new thread on that subject and ask the others how to recover posts from moderation so they will be posted timely.I have already posted my basic position on this thread. If you would like to defend this historic waste of money as somehow economically beneficial, I would enjoy hearing such creative arguments.

  92. Michael Weiss says:

    Bart, perhaps you are losing touch with reality. The posts are no more likely to be lost in this comments section, or any new one that Monotreme creates, than in the one specifically crafted for discussion on the ARRA.And, incidentally, your accusation was specifically that it’s pork. I already very clearly articulated the degree to which it may or may not be economically beneficial. The two are loosely related at best.I also note that, despite your lengthy diatribes at the old fivethirtyeight, you have been utterly silent on two of my articles outlining the justification for the health care legislation passed earlier this year. Is that an oversight? Or is something else at work here?

  93. Bart DePalma says:

    Michael:The reality if that your Porkulus thread is way back in the line now and was by far the worse for eating posts. I am not adding running back to long past threads to the fun of losing my posts on that thread. If you want to have this discussion, start another damn thread. Otherwise, you know where a stand.If you want my two cents on your Obamacare threads, I can check them out. You may recall that I have been on vacation when they were posted. Check for my responses.

  94. Michael Weiss says:

    Bart, I am well aware that you were on vacation at the time the first article was posted. You kept reminding us of it in the multitude of comments you posted in the other articles during your absence.The second article was posted after your return. You had plenty to say about the articles posted for days on either side of it.Just for what it’s worth.

  95. Bart DePalma says:

    Michael:As requested, I left a response to your first excellent heath insurance analysis. Here is the link for a quick jump back.http://blog.538refugees.com/2010/10/11/health-insurance-isnt-really-insurance-at-all.aspx#Comment

  96. shortchain says:

    Bart,May I suggest that your very good comment on that thread would be apropos in the most recent thread by Michael, as it would certainly bear on the issue of eliminating employment-based health insurance.And I tend to agree with your suggestion, BTW.

  97. Bart DePalma says:

    At the risk of jinxing the election by assuming that the voters will lend Congress to the Republicans in November, the next act of the Tea Party’s hostile takeover of the GOP has already started. From the Hill:””Look, the time to go along and get along is over,” said Rep. Mike Pence (Ind.), the chairman of the House Republican Conference. “House Republicans know that. We’ve taken firm and principled stands against their big government plans throughout this Congress, and we’ve got, if the American people will send them, we’ve got a cavalry of men and women headed to Washington, D.C. that are going to stand with us.”Pence said his party wouldn’t compromise on issues like spending or healthcare reform, two of the weightiest items on Congress’s agenda next year, when the Republicans could control one or both chambers.”Look, there will be no compromise on stopping runaway spending, deficits and debt. There will be no compromise on repealing Obamacare. There will be no compromise on stopping Democrats from growing government and raising taxes,” Pence told conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt Thursday evening. “And if I haven’t been clear enough yet, let me say again: No compromise.”His words are meant to soothe conservatives who worry the party might be too accommodating of Obama and the Democrats in Congress.Their fears were sparked earlier this week when retiring Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) suggested repealing healthcare reform might not be the best approach to the issue. The “Repeal It” argument has been a rally cry for Republicans this election cycle, and several conservative candidates and incumbents backed by the Tea Party movement have signed a pledge to support repealing the healthcare law.”http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/125383-republicans-say-compromise-not-on-the-agendaPence gets it and he will have around 65 or so new friends to back him up in January.The Tea Party folks need to stop celebrating by December and get back to work reminding their representatives of both parties what they were sent to DC to accomplish.

  98. shortchain says:

    Actually, Bart, the tea party folks need to first win elections. Then they can celebrate, and finally they can stop celebrating and hold their duly-elected representatives’ feet to the fire.Which won’t work, of course. Once elected, representatives become incumbents, and incumbents don’t need the help of the people who helped them gain name recognition. See, for example, Norm Coleman, Rand Paul, or Joe Miller (how’s that endorsement stuff workin’ for ya, Sarah? Seems that, once you give them what they want, they don’t always reciprocate.)

  99. shrinkers says:

    Pence said his party wouldn’t compromise on issues like spending or healthcare reform, two of the weightiest items on Congress’s agenda next year, when the Republicans could control one or both chambers.Seeing as how Republicans were unwilling to compromise, negotiate, or even govern, I don’t see how this would be a change.Their fears were sparked earlier this week when retiring Sen. Judd Gregg (R-N.H.) suggested repealing healthcare reform might not be the best approach to the issue.This is going to be fun! As I said on a previous thread, I really hope the Teapers get seats, the more the better. The bloody wars within the Republican Party will be worth the price of admission right there!

  100. filistro says:

    @shrinkers… The bloody wars within the Republican Party will be worth the price of admission right there!/i>John Boehner cautiously warned the Tea Party yesterday that they can’t really expect TOO much of their agenda to be speedily enacted. He pointed out that “it’s difficult to get things done in Washington nowadays…”LOL.Karma… gotta love it, eh? 😉

  101. filistro says:

    fix italics… sorry (Memo to self: never, never post after having nightcap 😦

  102. Scott says:

    I would argue that after a nightcap is the BEST time to post. 🙂 I can’t wait to see what comes out when someones knocked back a few.

  103. shrinkers says:

    filistro – John Boehner cautiously warned the Tea Party yesterday that they can’t really expect TOO much of their agenda to be speedily enacted. He pointed out that “it’s difficult to get things done in Washington nowadays…”Gee, Orange Man has been trying to kiss up to the Teapers lately. If they feel betrayed after the election, we could see calls for his impeachment.

  104. shrinkers says:

    It’s not italics. It’s just that our commentary is slanted.

  105. filistro says:

    I think our commentary is straight up. The WORLD is slanted. Really, seriously askew.

  106. Realist says:

    To the right, it seems.

  107. Scott says:

    Gee, Orange Man has been trying to kiss up to the Teapers lately. If they feel betrayed after the election, we could see calls for his impeachment.Expectations, expectations, expectations. Anything less than a bazillion house seats, control of the Senate, an Obama impeachment, colonization of the moon, and a gold-plated statue of Sarah Palin in the Rose Garden will cause a furor never before seen.As an avid people-watcher and as one who greatly enjoys to watch self-destruction, it does seem appealing. Though, I’m not sure the country would survive 2 years of that.

  108. Bart DePalma says:

    Actually even if the GOP only takes over the house narrowly and the Senate remains Dem, the GOP can accomplish most of what the Tea Party wants – shrink government and cut the deficit. All spending bills originate in the House. No number of filibusters or vetoes can force a GOP House to fund what it does not want to.The only lever the Dems have to force spending is to attempt to shut down the government ala Clinton v. Gingrich. However, this tactic only works if the House send an omnibus bill to the Senate and the President. The GOP appears to have learned this lesson and openly discusses in their Pledge eliminating the omnibus process and enacting individual spending bills. Thus, you can enact the HHS funding bill alone without a dime for Obamacare and any other wasteful spending and then challenge the Dems to stop it and shut down HHS. If there is a part of HHS which is popular with their center right electorate, fund it in a separate bill so the Dems cannot hold it hostage. There is no part of the government which Dems do not love.If the new GOP House wants to, it can surgically and dramatically reduce the size of government. The Tea Party needs to keep a fire under their asses to give them the necessary impetus.

  109. Bart DePalma says:

    I never thought I would see the like in my lifetime – likely voters in a national election favoring the GOP on every single issue – including such Dem standbys as health care and social security!http://www.ap-gfkpoll.com/pdf/AP-GfK%20Poll%20October%202010%20full%20topline.pdf

  110. filistro says:

    Remember how much we laughed at Bart’s ridiculous claim that Obama directly influenced the stock market back in 2009?Turns out he was talking about the wrong Obama. 🙂

  111. filistro says:

    BE VERY AFRAID… this lady could well be seated next to you on a plane!(“She’s currently on page 60..” For some reason I just found that line so CUTE… 🙂

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