States of the Unions

State of the Union, last year (Image via New York Times)

It’s that time of year once again. Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution requires that the President

…shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient…

Not that it’s required to be annual, or at any particular time of year, but tradition dictates that it’s annually in the second half of January.

In any case, this year will be interesting. We have a Republican House, with the Tea Party all but declaring ownership of the right side of the aisle. And not even two weeks from the day that a member of the House, one literally targeted by the Tea Party, was shot in the head.

In light of the rancor, which has been growing exponentially since at least Clinton’s 1992 election, it’s encouraging to see that some members of Congress (including, to my surprise, Rep. Joe Wilson) are willing to literally cross the aisle to sit with members of the opposing party during the State of the Union. Sadly, some have chosen to eschew the opportunity, claiming that it’s a political trick.

Contributing to divisiveness, those members of the Supreme Court nominated by Republican Presidents are expected to pass on attending, while those nominated by Democrats are expected to be present.

The word on the street is that Obama will focus his attention before Congress on investments in the future competitiveness of the US. It’s hard for me to find anything wrong with that goal. I suppose the contention will revolve around money and national standards.


Not So Official

Most intriguing to me, in a tabloid newspaper kind of way, is what’s to come after the speech. Rep. Paul Ryan is giving the official Republican response to the speech. And then, along will come Rep. Michele Bachmann, to give the…unofficial response? She’s giving the Tea Party perspective, and since there isn’t officially an official party, it’s hard to know just what to call it.

Whatever it is, it’s pretty clear that Bachmann is angling for a nomination for President. Are we looking at a widening division within the nation’s conservative wing of politics?

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197 Responses to States of the Unions

  1. By the way, I want to apologize for there not having been any new content until now. Sometimes, an all-volunteer army of five has the rest of reality intrude. This was, unfortunately for all of us, one of those times.

    Keeping the words flowing turns out to be work sometimes. Incidentally, it’s discouraging when the work to develop an interesting topic devolves in the comments into childish insults and rehashes of exactly the same topics previously discussed to death. Kind of like taking all day to make a fancy, seven-course meal, only to find that the people you serve it to end up having a food fight in the dining room. 538 Refugees is a labor of love, and its survival requires that love to be mutual.

  2. shiloh says:

    Again political discussion on the net just reflects what is going on the country ie scorched earth rancor and discontent. Back in the ’60s there was this myth re: both parties being civil to each other at the end of the day, whereas at best they really, really despised each other. Now of course, they really, really hate each other exacerbated originally when Robert Bork was borked 😀 in 1987 and its been pretty much downhill since further exacerbated by the SC appointing cheney/bush president in 2000 and then said cheney/bush FUBARing the country soooo frickin’ bad lol that America elected an African/American president. Gasp!

    Of course now, all bets are off!

    Oh yea, re: the State of the Union it will probably only be newsworthy for its lack of news, unless of course Ryan and Bachmann make complete and total fools of themselves …

  3. Bart DePalma says:

    Words the voters want to hear that will never cross Barack Obama’s lips: The voters have spoken. They want us to stop borrowing and spending. The era of big government is over.

  4. Bartbuster says:

    The era of big government is over.

    Until the GOP takes over, then it’s BACK ON!! INVADE IRAN!!!

  5. mostlyilurk says:

    Actually, I suspect that words that this voter wants to hear will cross President Obama’s lips this evening. We shall see.

  6. Bart DePalma says:


    The actual Obama SOTU: “The voters are worried about the economy and want us to work together to solve it. I agree we need to balance the budget someday (after I have finished a second term). Meanwhile, though, here are several hundred billion dollars of new government spending to “create jobs” that the voters want us to work on.

  7. Bart, don’t pretend like the biggest growths of govt weren’t between 1980 and 1992 and between 2000 and 2008. Govt (and the executive branch) grows the most when a republican is elected, no matter who is in congress.

  8. erik says:

    Mick Mulvaney (R) from SC on one of the C-Spans this morn agreed that the Republicans lost the grip on their fiscal beliefs during GWB’s administration. Of course no one on the R side of the aisle did much to regain that grip from ’01-’06, if I recall. I imagine that when all settles down to politics as usual, very little of significance will be done to reign in spending in this congress. Think about it. If they reign in spending , grow the economy, and lower unemployment rates, who gets the credit? The man who would be president— again. Do they really want that?

    Also, it was interesting to hear Hatch drone on on the other C-Span as he lauded the CBO for a particular aspect of its analysis of the stimulus program . He couldn’t have been more lavish in his praise of the bi-partisan nature of the office and its Democratic head. Five minutes later he was citing as laughable the findings of the CBO regarding PPACA, saying Ryan’s interpretation of the costs of the bill and identification of the inconsistencies therein put the lie to CBO estimates.

  9. Number Seven says:

    Good luck Electrovibe, we saw these kind of Barts back at the Dialogue site. A dime a dozen and not worth ‘debating’ their one track minds. Facts just don’t matter to the likes of them.

    Although I will agree with the term, bait and switch, but for a different reason: we voted for a democrat and got just another Public Con lite. Another corporate lackey.

    Why people like Bart are angry with this is beyond me. One would think the right wing would be dancing in the streets over the fact that Obama has kept fully 80% of his predecessors policies while giving his base the finger by calling us sanctimonious and in need of drug testing. He has given tax cuts to the rich and continues the enabling of off shoring jobs. He has continued policies we used to get out in the streets to protest against. But I guess those policies are fine when a Democant does them.

    We on the left should be the angry ones and tonights STOU will be more of the same. More ass kissing to the trite wing without the benifit of a reach around. There will be no call for higher tariffs to combat our “free” trade partners tariffs. No higher taxes on those who have gotten the most out of our country. Ross Perot’s sucking sound has been replaced by sound you get when your milkshake is done.

    This is the new normal folks, get used to it. We will all be like the Jamaican family skit in the old series “In Living Color”. We will all have to have 57 jobs in order to make ends meet. But like Bush said to the woman who said she had to have 3 jobs, that’s the American way.

  10. Bart DePalma says:

    electrovibe11 says: Bart, don’t pretend like the biggest growths of govt weren’t between 1980 and 1992 and between 2000 and 2008. Govt (and the executive branch) grows the most when a republican is elected, no matter who is in congress.

    You have a point concerning the Bush’s. Both George I & II raised federal spending as a percentage of GDP.

    Reagan dropped it from 23% to 21% of GDP and his victory in the Cold War allowed the a peace dividend dropping military spending as a percentage of GDP down to 3% and overall down to 19%.

    No Republican president in history raised federal spending either in absolute terms or as a percentage of GDP as did Obama.

  11. NotImpressed says:

    I expect the President to take the only rational course. We must invest in America. Improve education, rebuild and expand our infrastructure, grow more jobs. This will increase tax revenues, which is the only sensible way to reduce the deficit. We simply cannot get rid of the deficit without increasing revenues. And as long as there are Republicans in Congress, we won’t be able to have a rational tax policy. So economic growth is our only way out. And that takes investment.

    We’ve heard for a long time that “the government should be run like a business.” Well, America Inc. needs to invest. It’s about time we got back to thinking about what the stockholders (the American public) really need. More jobs. Better education. Better infrastructure.

    What I want to hear is The era of “the era of big government is over” is over.

  12. shiloh says:

    Barted ~ and his victory in the Cold War

    Again, Communism imploded from within as the U.S.S.R. ran out of $$$ because it was foolishly all going to their war machine. And the ’cause of this was a (40) year U.S. Cold War foreign policy, starting with Truman as Dutch just happened to be there at the end.

    Interesting as cable news/internet proliferated in the late ’70s/early ’80s, so did the decline of Communism as govts. could no longer keep the truth from its citizens, soooo a big thanx to ending the Cold War also goes to Ted Turner, eh.


    We now return you to Bartles 24/7 winger propaganda/revisionism and his ad nauseam Obama obsession …

    rinse, lather, repeat

  13. mclever says:

    For a bit of humor, here’s the “state of our union” from a state-by-state perspective…

    Based on Census statistics and health rankings, it turns out that every state ranks dead last in at least one unsavory category.

    Some interesting ones on there, particularly in the northwest… Hmm… My state’s just old.

  14. Bart DePalma says:

    Kaiser Family Foundation runs a monthly poll on Obamacare. Because it polls a disproportionately Dem heavy sample of non-voting adults, Dems have been relying upon KFF polls to argues that opposition to Obamacare is really not all that high. This misperception did not help Dems who voted for Obamacare during the election, though.

    This month’s KFF poll has support for Obamacare slipping substantially even among its adults respondents. No big surprise there.

    What is interesting however, is that KFF broke down the generic support and oppose question into four choices: (1) Repeal Obamacare, (2) Repeal Obamacare and replace it with a GOP alterative, (3) Keep Obamacare, or (4) Expand Obamacare.

    Repeal is supported by 30% of the GOP, 22% of Indis and 8% of Dems.

    Repeal and replace with a GOP plan is backed by 47% of GOP, 25% Indis and 3% of Dems.

    Keep Obamacare is the least popular option and is backed by 32% of Dems, 16% of Indis and 8% of GOP.

    Expand Obamacare is the Dem preference, with backing by 51% of Dems, 24% of Indis and 7% of GOP (who are these Republicans?)

    Assuming the repeal folks will support repeal and replace as an alternative to allowing Obamacare to remain, the GOP position of repeal and replace would muster the support of 77% of the GOP, 47% of Indis and 11% of Dems – a plurality of adults. Raise that support to a majority if this question were asked of the more conservative cohort of actual voters.

    I suspect the KFF findings are similar to GOP internal polling, which explains why the GOP intends to ride this horse all the way through 2012.

  15. mostlyilurk says:

    Does anyone know where I can find a summary of the GOP plan that would replace the ACA? TIA.

  16. Bart DePalma says:


    The GOP offered repeal and replace legislation in the House before the election. The Dem media ignored it.

    The main elements are high risk pools for those who cannot get insurance because of a preexisting condition, free trade of insurance across state lines free of individual state mandates and med mal tort reform.

  17. shiloh says:

    mclever, Ohio is the nerdiest state, eh ~ but, but, but we have the Rock ‘n’ Roll Hall of Fame ~ Pro Football Hall of Fame! ~ National Museum of the United States Air Force

    ok, even I still go to the library occasionally …

    Halle Berry, Chrissie Hynde, Devo, Joe Walsh, Carmen Electra, Heather Kozar and a plethora 😉 of other Playboy Playmates, Jerry Springer, Phil Donahue, Dean Martin, The O’Jays, Roy Rogers, Paul Newman, Clark Gable, Bob Hope, Boz Scaggs, Tim Conway, James Thurber etc. are/were from Ohio.

    ok, they all left to become famous 😛

  18. shiloh says:


    Colorado: highest rate of cocaine use per capita (3.9 percent total population)


  19. mostlyilurk says:

    Thanks, Bart, but could you point me to the actual current legislation that the GOP is proposing as a replacement for the ACA. I’d like to see the text of it myself.
    TIA, again 🙂

  20. shortchain says:


    There is no GOP plan. The plan offered up after 5 months of bait by the GOP would
    a) not lower costs
    b) leave 50 million off insurance
    c) never pass Congress

    It basically amounted to “just die, already”, with a few pokes in the eye for lawyers (“tort reform”), gifts for medical insurers (“incorporate in the place with the most lenient laws, and screw the insured”). Here or here.

    I love the part about “2300” to buy health insurance. Know what that would buy? A high-deductible catastrophic plan — if you are a healthy person about 30 — in other words, a plan which is adequate only if you never need it. My high-deductible catastrophic plan costs twice that.

  21. mclever says:


    You forgot to say “if you are a MALE healthy person about 30…” Insurance companies invariably charge women in their 30s about twice what they charge men for similar coverage… Don’t ask how I know this…

  22. mostlyilurk says:

    I suspected that but then I have to wonder what the heck people are talking about when they refer to “repeal and replace.” It’s hard for me to believe that people would be “for” repealing and replacing something when they have no idea what the actual replacement is or would be. It just makes no sense to me.

  23. shortchain says:


    I have no information on the gender differences. Oddly, when I asked for estimates, the companies always insist that I give them my vital specifics first. I suppose I could say, next time, that I’m a female, but I doubt I’d be believed. I’ll take your word for it.


    I’m continually amazed at the lack of rationality of so much of the population. Probably that’s an indication of something wrong with me.

  24. Bart DePalma says:


    The GOP has not agreed on a replacement bill for this session. With roughly 67 new GOP members, many hired by voters on a straight repeal platform, there will have to be some compromise.

  25. mclever says:


    Nothing wrong with you, my friend. 🙂

  26. Bart DePalma says:


    The GOP has no plan to provide coverage for the roughly 20 million mostly young people who decline to buy insurance. (the others are illegals and the wealthy) However, avoiding state mandates and tort reform will definitely lower government created insurance inflation.

  27. NotImpressed says:

    Actually, Kaiser did not ask a single question about Obamacare. BART LIES. Not one survey, not one question, not one mention of “Obamacare.”

    Kaiser surveyed attitudes about “Heath Reform.” That Bart beelives they did something different from that says all one needs to know about Bart.

    He can’t even read. He makes crap up. Why does anyone bother to respond to him?

    According to the Kaiser poll, 47% want to keep the new Health Reform law as it is, or expand it. 43% want to repeal it or replace it with a (non-existent) Republican alternative. Clearly, a plurality want to keep and / or expand. Bart is trying to engage in TYRANNY by attempt to thwart the Will of The People and to ram his own preferences down America’s throat.

    According to the poll, 62% (!) are OPPOSED to defunding Health Care Reform. Only 33% approve of defunding it. Notice Bart didn’t tell you that. Bart favors defunding the bill. Bart is trying to engage in TYRANNY by attempt to thwart the Will of The People and to ram his own preferences down America’s throat.

  28. shortchain says:

    To see the current makeup of the uninsured in this country, try here.

    It would appear that disproportionately many of them are hispanic and poor. Who knew that that demographic are illegal or wealthy? Since very, very few of the poor are wealthy, I guess that means they must be overwhelmingly “illegal”.

  29. NotImpressed says:


    So maybe Bart is lying again when he claims the uninsured are mostly illegals or are young. Who could have seen that coming?

  30. Max aka Birdpilot says:

    Only “Tort Reform” needed:

    1 – All civil suits, federal and state, MUST come under comparative negligence. All defendants AND plaintiff will be adjudged to what percentage each contributed to the damage.

    2 – Joint and several theory where EACH defendant can be 100% liable for all other defendants would be eliminated. Each defendant found at fault will be limited to percentage of award apportioned comparatively negligent.

    3 – Defendant’s attorney will pay all legals costs and fees for any plaintiff dismissed from suit prior to trial.

  31. Max aka Birdpilot says:

    4- Assets up to the amount defendants found liable, plus estimated interest and defendants appellate legal costs and fees, will be frozen by the Court immediately upon judgement and during any appeals. No bonds for greater than 50% of award allowed during appeal.

  32. NotImpressed says:

    By the way, Obama’s job approval is soaring.

    He is 13% above where Reagan was at this point. Unless Obama starts sleeping with sheep, his landslide in 2012 will dwarf the can of whoopass he opened on the Republicans in ’08. His coattails will be the size of California. Think the House comes back, maybe +4 seats in the Senate.

  33. Number Seven says:

    Mclever, great chart of shame.

    I live in Washington State and the chart is correct. I thought it would be serial killers but I was wrong.

  34. shortchain says:

    I cannot believe that Washington state beat South Carolina in that category.

  35. Number Seven says:

    A guy got killed here a few years back. Google ‘horse, sex, washington state’ if you dare, lol

  36. Bart DePalma says:


    As I noted, KFF plays games with it’s overall numbers by oversampling Dems in far higher numbers than they exist among voters. A 77% majority of Republicans, a 48% plurality of Indies and 11% of Dems makes a plurality in the al world over either keeping Obamacare or expanding this frankestein program, which are not the same thing unlike the two variations on appeal.

  37. Mainer says:

    Of course I dare #7. Ouch……….I never saw that one approaching. I figured it must involve getting kicked or falling off a step stool. Oh well

    We of course had the lad a few years back that tried to marry his dog right near here. That didn’t work out either. Couldn’t find any one to marry them and he took a bunch of crap for it so they have had to just continue living in sin or what ever.

    Nothing really surprises me any more.

    Oh and Bart a crap load of people around here that work would be very surprised to learn they are young and healthy, don’t want to have health insurance or are illegal aliens. And all this time I figured it was because they worked minimum wage or slightly above jobs and couldn’t afford health insurance. But hey Bart’s buddies will get rid of that pesky minimum wage and that should make things just fine for them.

  38. Number Seven says:

    Ouch, lol, yes, that is one way to put it…..

  39. Mainer says:

    You know #7 all this hype about the 3 speeches tonight and here I set in front of the computer. I don’t think I am going to watch any of them. The whole mess has pretty much turned me off. I’ll back the president but I don’t like the sound of leaked bits of the speech and him trying to out Republican the Republicans. I too wonder when we will actually get a true progressive in there again? I’m betting not in what remains of my life time. It is going to have to get pretty gawd awful I suspect before the nation wakes up. May it not be too late if and when it happens.

  40. Number Seven says:

    Right on Mainer. I am going to watch them but I have a pint of gin nearby, lol. And this nonsense about some of them sitting togther, lol. Let’s vote for prom king and queen too. Happy happy joy joy.

  41. Number Seven says:

    OMG, yep, there is Shela Jackson Lee, just like clockwork, and Mitch, Yurtle, Mcconnel.

    Kabuki at it’s best

  42. Number Seven says:

    Now that Obama has admitted to being a Republcon, I have no doubt, Boener wont yell out, YOU LIE

  43. Mainer says:

    I liked your idea of the pint so much I poured my self two fingers………man I’ve got big fingers.

    WHo gets to sit next to Virginia Foxx? Ohhhh, ooooooh put Denis Kuschinich next to her and he will be sure he has had another extrateresterial experience. She is an UFO…..I’ll let you work on that one.

    Think I’ll sit this one out. Maybe check the cliff notes later.

  44. shortchain says:

    You don’t have to wait for the Cliff notes version. The full text has been released already.

    I looked it over, and — I don’t find anything there to inspire me. Weak tea. I think I’ll join Mainer (spiritually, at least) and sip something to deaden the disillusionment.

  45. Number Seven says:

    OMG, ending subsidies for oil companies. THE FIRST THING IN THIS SPEACH I CAN AGREE WITH , and yet only tepid clapping….

  46. Number Seven says:

    Yes, celebrating science over sports….. now you are talking Obama

  47. Mainer says:

    That wasn’t clapping that was the enamel coming off the teeth of that BP appologist from Texas.

  48. Number Seven says:

    and then he slams it with becoming a teacher, WTG!!!

    as a college tutor getting paid minimum wage, it has been the best job I have ever had.

  49. NotImpressed says:

    Stressing education. We need to invest more. Good move.

  50. Number Seven says:

    Here we go….


  51. NotImpressed says:

    Loved the passage on renewable energy. America can get on that wave, or be left behind.

    Slapping down the opponents of the DREAM act without mentioning them. Just saying we have to acknowledge and value the people who are born here. And whom our Constitution says are citizens.

  52. Mainer says:

    I think the two fingers was not quite enough BRB. If I don’t watch the president I sure as hell will not watch Ryan. That lad makes my skin crawl. Every time I even see a picture of him I get the urge to check my wallet. Maybe I’ll just check the comedy wrap up or more likely I’ll have yet again 2 fingers. I may have found a way to make politics palatable and they say Russians are backward. I think they have been onto some thing all allong. Is booze and politics like wine and food? You know do you have to match them up. I would hate to have a serious breach of political drinking ettiquite tonight.

  53. NotImpressed says:

    Rebuild infrastructure. New jobs, high speed rail, exactly what our economy needs.

    Highspeed wireless. Bring America into the 21st Century. Stressing how that benefits us all. Excellent.

    A hit on industry and corporate lobbyists who controlled our tax code. Good move.

    Lots of emphasis on creating jobs. While certain elected officials screw with political nonsense like kabuki repeal of PPACA. The contrast is striking.

  54. Mainer says:

    So have any Republicans died yet from having to sit with Democrats?

    The Dream act piece should have featured a full face of McCain.

  55. NotImpressed says:

    Stressing financial reform and health care reform. 🙂 Excellent! Repeating his invitation to Republicans to participate instead of simply obstruct. And sticking it to the un-American voices of repeal.

  56. mclever says:

    Fix what needs fixing and let’s move forward!

  57. Number Seven says:

    Waaaa, tort reform….

  58. mclever says:

    #7 It’s a cheap bone. Makes ’em happy and steals a talking point.

  59. NotImpressed says:

    Boner looks really pained. Obama is stealing all his talking points! Way to go!

  60. Number Seven says:

    damn, i love smoked salmon

  61. NotImpressed says:

    Fix what needs fixing and let’s move forward!

    I was gonna quote that one too. It’s perfect!

  62. mclever says:

    Everything he’s saying sounds good (of course), so the real test will be what can actually be accomplished.

  63. NotImpressed says:

    He stole the earmarks talking point! Way to go!

  64. Mainer says:

    Damn maybe I should have watched. Most sensable people will identify with fix it and move on. Most people live that way. People could well remember who tried to get congress to fix the financial system or they may figure out who is going to gut Elizabeth Warren’s efforts when they get gutted like a fish by a bank. Does Ryan get a pre copy of the speech to comment on? I would ask about Bachmann but she wouldn’t read it if she had it.

  65. mclever says:

    I wonder if Republicans will dare him with a veto by allowing an incredibly progressive piece of legislation to pass but with a nice pork padding… Just so they can corner him on either breaking his promise or vetoing something he supposedly supports.

    If so, then please, Obama, break your promise! 😉

  66. NotImpressed says:

    Stressing the START treaty, the end of the Iraq war, the coming withdrawal from Afghanistan, nuclear control around the world … wonderful achievements in foreign policy.

  67. Number Seven says:

    And now the ‘war on terror’……

    why do I think of the sound George Carlin made with his figurative masterbation….

  68. NotImpressed says:

    mclever … yes… Republicans will play politics just to buy some talking points. No doubt about that. Scum of the earth.

  69. Number Seven says:

    I see more Laroucheis then ROTC on campus. They were the ones who provided the tea baggers with the Hitler-Obama posters.

  70. Mainer says:

    I would be with you Mclever but I can’t see them being that smart. I would go with Tort reform if it would put even one lawyer out of commission ok one in particular but……….hmmmm would that be like a bill of attainder?

    Poor Luntz will be working over time after this he has to come up with a whole new vocabulary for the party of parrots

  71. NotImpressed says:

    Good ending. “We do big things.”

  72. Bart DePalma says:

    Can you say Dead on Arrival?

    The clapping from the Dems was tepid, when they were not literally asleep after 20 minutes.

    The invited prop CEOs looked bored.

    Boehner look like he was going over his schedule for the next day.

    Jesus, this guy needs an editor. Brevity is the soul of wit, Barry.

    Obama was better last years when he was lying up a storm and a Republican called him on it.

  73. NotImpressed says:

    We will hear tomorrow from Bart on what the new Luntz talking points are. He has to get his orders from the Mothership first.

  74. mclever says:

    I think he borrowed a few pages from ole Bill Clinton by couching a progressive plan in the terminology of conservatives and even embracing ideas from the other side of the aisle when they could be reasonably folded into his overall agenda.

    “We do big things.”

  75. Number Seven says:

    Now when will Michelle Bachmann Overwrought start?

  76. NotImpressed says:

    Tweety was right .. a Jack Kennedy speech .. unifying and powerful.

    Boxing in the Republicans. They will sound petty (thanks, Bart, for the example).

    This is what America is for. Obama hit it out of the park.

  77. mclever says:

    Commentators beforehand predicted that blended seating would stifle frivolous applause. No shock there. The meat of the speech seemed well-received by both parties, which fits the overall emphasis on bipartisanship.

  78. mclever says:

    I agree, NotImpressed. He spoke in soft language, in muted tones, but it reached a touchstone of the American spirit. Beyond class, beyond partisanship, we as Americans are in this together, and we can pursue the American dream.

  79. NotImpressed says:

    Here comes Petty Paul.

  80. Mainer says:

    Ok if the pres did a good job and stole a number of talking points, did a little boxing and set a really good tone. Did Ryan and Bachmann get early copies of the speech or do they now go at it hammer and tong and really show what the difference is?

  81. NotImpressed says:

    The only issue the Republicans have is debt. Which they caused. Same tired arguments. Same hypocrisy. Same meaningless talking points. Blah blah blah.

  82. Bart DePalma says:

    I have heard Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was one of my idols and Obama is no Jack Kennedy. Hell, he is no Clinton.

  83. NotImpressed says:

    “The president is urging Congress to increase the debt limit.”

    As if Obama was the first President ever to do this. As if NOT doing it won’t destroy the world economy.

    Playing for low-information FOX viewers. Republicans assume we are stupid.

  84. mclever says:

    Paul Ryan:

    Doom and Gloom! Be very afraid! Huge tax increases! Day of Reckoning!!!

    Oh noes!!!!

  85. mclever says:

    “American Exceptionalism.”

  86. NotImpressed says:

    Ryan provided a bunch for right-wing platitudes. With no proposals. No substance. And a few lies.

    A little better than Bobby Jindahl, but not much. Nothing of substance. Whining, nothing more.

  87. NotImpressed says:

    “We believe in a safetynet for those who cannot provide for themselves.” Is Ryan now a Socialist? 🙂

    Ryan wants to erase Social Security and Medicare. He will destroy the vote from seniors for Republicans.

  88. mclever says:

    I was most struck by the difference in tone between Obama’s vision for the future and Ryan’s projection of gloom and destruction.

    Oh, and his “safety net” line had me in stitches given his known policy preferences.

  89. Number Seven says:

    Just wait til you see Michelle Bachman…

  90. NotImpressed says:

    mclever, Maddow made a similar point, contrasting Obama and Ryan. Obama was inclusive and trying to pull the nation together. Ryan just whined about bad bad bad Obama. The President said we have to move forward as a nation, we need to cooperate and face the future as one. Ryan was all blame and doom.

    America is hopeful. Ryan told us it is midnight in America. He made the Republicans look small and sad.

  91. NotImpressed says:

    #7, is Bachmann being carried anywhere?

  92. mclever says:

    I knew there was a reason I thought Rachel Maddow was smart! 😉

  93. Mainer says:

    Supposedly she was only being carried on CNN and I wentto Newsmax and all there was was some text. Odd that Fakes the News didn’t carry her screed. After all they created her and the teapers. Ought to be wild on Freeper net.

  94. mclever says:

    She was on CNN. I didn’t listen to her. Ryan was bad enough for me.

  95. shiloh says:

    Barted ~ Jesus, this guy

    Bartles, no need to mention deity when taking about your president, just call him by his name: Barack Hussein Obama, the 44th President of the United States of America! 🙂


    A second shout out to Bartles’ hero, Ryan …

    Paul Ryan’s Plan for Millionaires’ Gain and Middle-Class Pain … The ‘Ryan Roadmap’ leads to an entitlement raid and middle-class tax hikes in order to enrich the wealthy

    1. The Ryan Roadmap raises taxes on Americans making between $20,000 and $200,000 while slashing taxes in half for the wealthiest Americans.

    2. The Ryan Roadmap replaces corporate taxation with a regressive consumption tax.

    3. The Ryan Roadmap places the entire burden of deficit reduction on spending cuts.

    4. The Ryan Roadmap dismantles Medicare and Medicaid, defunding important social
    programs without addressing the rising cost of health care throughout the economy.

    5. The Ryan Roadmap cuts benefits and partially privatizes Social Security without improving retirement security.

    An ideological attack on the safety net

    “The Ryan Roadmap suggests that America’s benefit programs – particularly Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid – have spawned a society in which self-reliance is a vice and dependency a virtue. But programs like Social Security and Medicare are meant to pool risks for all Americans against either market failures or economic uncertainty, and they ensure a greater level of dignity and health in retirement. Seeing no value in these important programs, the Roadmap exploits the nation’s long-term fiscal challenge in an effort to dismantle them.

    The Ryan Roadmap proposes turning the clock back to a time before the country prioritized access to health care and retirement security, and before there was a robust middle class. Ryan suggests a tradeoff in which social insurance programs would be dismantled to finance tax cuts for millionaires and the elimination of corporate taxes. Our fiscal challenges don’t require sacrificing the middle class; they require everyone – especially corporations and wealthy individuals – to pay their fair share of taxes.

    Where would the Ryan Roadmap lead America? A long tradition of progressive taxation would be abandoned; millionaires and Wall Street bankers would pay significantly lower tax rates than middle-class workers. Roughly three-quarters of Americans would face tax increases while millionaires would see their taxes fall by more than half. Corporations’ profits would surge as the corporate income tax would be eliminated and replaced with a regressive consumption tax. Income inequality would soar. These giveaways to corporations and wealthy individuals would in turn require drastic cuts to the social insurance programs and public investments supporting the middle class.

    The Roadmap abandons the commitments made to all Americans over the past century by cutting away large swathes of the social safety net. It would replace Medicare with a voucher of ever-diminishing purchasing power. Health care costs would continue to spiral out of control, and insurers could continue their predatory practices. Health care coverage would no longer be guaranteed for retirees. More and more low-income American children would go without health care. Costs would be shifted from the federal budget to consumers, businesses, and states, while the problems in the health system would remain unaddressed. State budget crises would intensify, requiring more tax increases or benefit cuts that would further weaken a middle class already under assault. Social Security would cease to be a universal social insurance program: most retirees would see steep benefit cuts; partial privatization would require massive bailouts to the trust fund, risking even bigger benefit cuts; and seniors would experience growing retirement insecurity and expensive or inadequate health care coverage.

    These are all unacceptable policy outcomes. The Ryan Roadmap sharply veers from the American values of fairness, financial security, and dignity in old age. The nation’s long-term fiscal challenges require a modernized tax code that equitability raises more revenue, targeted spending cuts that don’t undermine the middle class, and reforms that slow health care cost growth throughout the economy. The Roadmap proposes precisely the opposite. The Ryan Roadmap leads to an entitlement raid, not balanced deficit reduction, and in doing so would turn the clock back on the social progress made since the Great Depression.”

    Fortunately for Ryan, as w/all State of the Union rebuttals ~ no one was watching …

  96. shiloh says:

    Barted ~ I have heard Jack Kennedy

    Bartles, Ask not what your country can do for you ~ ask what you can do for your country!

    take care, blessings

  97. NotImpressed says:

    Scot “The One” Brown tweeted that he liked the speech 🙂

  98. Mr. Universe says:

    My twitter feed says Bachmann’s rebuttal was awkward. Mostly because she wouldn’t look into the camera. I’m with Mainer, I figured this might be a snoozer.

  99. NotImpressed says:

    The Tea Party is an embarrassment. With any luck, this was Bachmann’s Jindahl moment.

  100. Mr. Universe says:

    This just in: Giffords condition updated from serious to good.

  101. Monotreme says:

    From Nate’s Twitter finger:

    The most resonant theme from the #SOTU, according to @npr listeners: Salmon.

  102. Number Seven says:

    Salmon??? I don’t get it unless they are talking of the House OoompaLooomps color.

  103. parksie555 says:

    Thought it was a workmanlike speech. Tort reform made it in, hopefully the R’s call him on it at get some meaningful legislation out of it. Mentioned nuclear and clean coal as well as the pie-in-the sky stuff so at least his feet are on the ground with respect to a coherent energy policy. Don’t mind the attack on the oil allowances/etc and would not mind seeing rates increase on the 200K+/year crowd. And he rightfully took credit for some achievements, gays in the military, START, etc.

    Also like the way he acknowledged that political disagreements help keep our democracy vibrant and took the right tone with regards to the Giffords shooting.

    Would have liked to see Chris Christie instead of Ryan. I can’t believe Ryan said his big worry as a parent was the national debt. Give me a break. I think right now Christie is the only person among the elephants that can come close to Obama in the charisma department.

  104. Max aka Birdpilot says:

    I’ll sat it again, for those out there who want to take away the right to punish those who negligently harm others when we can’t send them to jail:

    Only “Tort Reform” needed:

    1 – All civil suits, federal and state, MUST come under comparative negligence. All defendants AND plaintiff will be adjudged to what percentage each contributed to the damage.

    2 – Joint and several theory where EACH defendant can be 100% liable for all other defendants would be eliminated. Each defendant found at fault will be limited to percentage of award apportioned comparatively negligent.

    3 – Defendant’s attorney will pay all legals costs and fees for any plaintiff dismissed from suit prior to trial.

    4- Assets up to the amount defendants found liable, plus estimated interest and defendants appellate legal costs and fees, will be frozen by the Court immediately upon judgement and during any appeals. No bonds for greater than 50% of award allowed during appeal.

  105. Bart DePalma says:

    Interesting reaction from MSNBC this morning. Apart from Howard Dean, who was there to spin, everyone was unimpressed with the Obama speech…but liked Paul Ryan and showed the Bachman clip without a snarky comment. Paging Olby!

    Ryan is a better cross examiner than a speech deliverer. Ryan was tight and often missed the punch lines of an otherwise decently written speech. Pause for effect, Paul.

  106. Mainer says:

    parksie this has just got to stop we can’t have people like the two of us agreeing on stuff. Why that might make it some of bipolar agreement.

    There is nothing wrong with a workman like speech. All of us that have worked understand seeing a problem and trying to fix it. We take the best shot we can based on the circumstances and move on. If that fix isn’t the whole answer we take what we have and keep tweeking it until we get it right or as right as the resources we have allow. That should be the deal right now with health care. If the Republicans could see ahead with any clarity they would be making hay right now as the party that fixed the problems with health care reform but instead they appear to want their legacy to be of the party that can only tear down and turn back. Doom and gloom alas and alac where is my bomb shelter and security blanky.

    If you think you want to lead me then go forward. I’m not big on going backwards. I just dn’t want leaders that come equipped with 4 truck sized rear view mirrors and a bung hole vision ahead.

  107. shortchain says:

    If anybody is interested, here’s the text of Bachmann’s remarks. (You can’t really call stringing together a bunch of talking-points and outright lies a “speech”.)

    You really need to read the comments to get a sense of the kind of people who think Bachmann did well. People have already pointed out several big floaters in her comments. It’s hard to tell if she’s ignorant or just stupid. Given her obvious opportunities to correct the former, we are left with only the latter to explain her obvious inadequacies.

    I’m thinking Bachmann may not represent either her district or the teapers very capably, but she’s pretty representative of the ignorant or ideologically stupidified demographic in this country.

    Ryan typifies perfectly the “I got mine, so FU” conservative position.

  108. Bart DePalma says:

    I just got through the Bachman response. Far better than I thought because she dealt with actual facts and figures. What a concept! However, the producers placed her teleprompter off to the side of the camera and she rarely looked into the camera. BAD mistake.

  109. Bart DePalma says:


    After the Obama speech, you are accusing Bachman of lying? :::snort::: The best TPM could come up with was observing that the point that the IRS will hire 16,000 new IRS agents to enforce Obamacare was speculative. They are right. It could be more.

  110. shortchain says:


    You say: “she dealt with actual facts and figures.” One minute later: “the point that the IRS will hire 16,000 new IRS agents to enforce Obamacare was speculative.”

    Note: “speculative” is the opposite of “actual”.

    I notice you accuse Obama of lying without specifying the lie. I’m sure this will involve some pretzel logic requiring unique interpretations of apparently innocent statements, so don’t bother on my account elucidating.

    I’m limiting myself deliberately to only point out a few of these idiocies per day, and it looks like I just went over my quota. So the ball is in your court, Bart. Contradict yourself some more, amuse the crowd.

  111. Monotreme says:

    You’re also missing the visuals. Someone please explain to me how Iwo Jima and the US Constitution in pen and ink have anything to do with Bachmann’s logorrheic explosion.

  112. Monotreme says:

    I also agree with Parksie.

  113. Monotreme says:


    President Obama used salmon as an example of confusing, overlapping government regulations. I didn’t think it was one of his greatest examples but apparently it hit home with most listeners.

    I also don’t like the Reagan-era technique of calling specific people out on minor achievements (“Jane Doe, a five year old in Peoria, Illinois, colored an elephant’s birthday party and STAYED WITHIN THE LINES!!!”) but they seem to be a permanent fixture now.

  114. Bart DePalma says:


    Which part of Obama’s claim to want to balance the budget while raising spending on his pet projects, freezing spending on 12% of the budget and cutting taxes did you find remotely credible?

    Then there were the whopers about the Apollo Program and his green energy projects creating millions of jobs.

  115. Mainer says:

    I get the salmon connection I live with it all the time but it is about Atlantic salmon and other than here in the back woods no one gives a damn. It is a pain in the butt but it is understandable. It is a complex issue and because of the competing demands on natural resources there are no easy or simplistic sollutions. The point is there are answers but people have got to learn to compromise. The days of if I don’t get mine then screw every one else has to end or a society of 300+ million can’t coexist. Problem is the other side only wants to apply bumper sticker sollutions and it just isn’t going to work. Trying to get any one to understand it isn’t tyranny if you don’t get every thing you want is getting harder and harder to work with. Gee I wonder where that is coming from?

    Yeah the shout outs at SOTU speeches has lost its charm if it ever had any. Tell me what I need to know lay out a plan and get on with it. Good governance is a shit load of tedious work. It isn’t about sound bites and talking heads it is about hearings and meetings and negotiation and studying. My dad was a politician and a damned good one. He worked worked some hard and dangerous jobs but he always said one of the hardest and most important was his days as a legislator. I know one way we can improve congress……….ban all tv cameras.

  116. Max aka Birdpilot says:

    barted:”Which part of Obama’s claim to want to balance the budget while raising spending on his pet projects, freezing spending on 12% of the budget and cutting taxes did you find remotely credible?

    It that similar to “Cut taxes and the economy will take off, good jobs will be created, money will trickle down from the wealthy like manna from heaven and the deficit will go disappear”????

  117. Jean says:

    Fact checking Michele Bachmann’s speech:

  118. Bart DePalma says:


    If Obama promised a tax reform with supply side effects, then he might have an argument that the resulting economic growth would narrow the deficit. Alas, he has not. Rather, Obama is talking about raising business taxes by reducing deductions.

    For all:

    The Obama deficit is set to hit $1.5 trillion this year.

    This is why you all should have been LMAO when Obama claimed to want to reduce the deficit after spending 28 minutes discussing new spending proposals.

    Too bad Joe Wilson was on his best behavior. That was a “LIAR!” moment if there ever was one.

  119. Bart DePalma says:


    Fact check?

    The claims that Bush borrowed and spent the deficit over the past two years and the Obamacare does not run the health in insurance industry are too ludicrous to pass the :::snort::: test.

    Bachman was correct.

  120. NotImpressed says:

    So, Bart’s response to the Bachmann fact-check is, “Nuh-uh!” Really convincing. But on about the same intellectual level as the Bachmann Palin Underdrive.

  121. Max aka Birdpilot says:

    Bart: “The Obama deficit is set to hit $1.5 trillion this year.“, then cites (guess WHO????) the CBO!!!

    Back to liking them when they match his notions and poo-pooing then when they don’t!!!

    He’s soooooooooooo predictable!

  122. shortchain says:

    Here’s why the Republicans (and, to an even greater degree, the teapers) are a disaster to exactly the degree to which they have a say in the budget.

  123. Number Seven says:

    Thanks guys for the info on the salmon reference.

  124. Mr. Universe says:

    whopers about the Apollo Program

    If anybody has some spare time to deliver a smackdown. I have things to do.

  125. Mr. Universe says:


    I kinda dig Bachmann Moron Overdrive.

    Truth be told, I made a decent living playing those cover tunes in the eighties.

  126. Bart DePalma says:


    CBO can score current spending fairly well (as opposed to proposed future spending in bills).

    If the CBO deficit projection is off, it is probably underestimating revenues after the 2% marginal tax rate decrease in withholding. There should be a minor supply side effect here.

  127. Number Seven says:

    What cracks me up is the GOP bringing out Ryan as some kind of voice of fiscal responsibility. After all, he helped pass 8 straight Bush budgets that increased the federal budget by 50%. article here

  128. Bart DePalma says:


    Do you believe that Bush borrowed and spent the deficit over the past two years? Obama signed both the FY 2009 (delayed until March 2009) and FY 2010 budgets. All the additional spending is his and his party’s. The GOP almost unanimously voted against both budget bills.

    Do you believe that HHS does not direct the operation of private health insurance under Obamacare? What precisely do you think was stuffed in that 2500 page bill? I have run the law past you folks several times here. You have no excuse for ignorance.

  129. Number Seven says:

    Crud, the link wont work. Ok, here is the number of the bills themselves.

    FY 2000, H CON RES 68, 3/25/99,

    FY 2001, H CON RES 290, 3/24/00,

    FY 2002, H CON RES 83, 3/28/01,

    FY 2003, H CON RES 353, 3/20/02,

    FY 2004, H CON RES 95, 3/21/03,

    FY 2005, H CON RES 393, 3/25/04,

    FY 2006, H CON RES 95, 3/17/05,

    FY 2007, H CON RES 376, 5/18/06

  130. Bartbuster says:

    Do you believe that Bush borrowed and spent the deficit over the past two years?

    Blankshot, the Bush deficit was PRIOR to the last 2 years. You people didn’t start to notice that there was a deficit until Obama was elected.

  131. shiloh says:

    So let’s recap, shall we:

    p555 thinks Christie has charisma ?!?

    Bartles wants Obama to be more like JFK ~ hmm, Nov. 22, 1963 … Of course Obama does have a lovely, intelligent, charming young family, much like JFK who would have also captured America’s interest, except they are African/American.

    Also, Dutch married twice, terrible relationship w/his children, gingrich married (3) times, limbo (4) times, vitter, sanford, ensign, mark foley Rep cover-up, etc. etc. ~ whereas Obama’s family compares favorably to Father Knows Best 😛



    And no NI, “we” don’t want Bachmann to be like Jindal as we indeed want her to run for president along w/gingrich, palin, mittens, pawlenty ie one more train wreck added to the mix.


    Repeating, did someone actually type Christie has charisma?


    btw, Dow up 12001.33 +24.14‎ (0.20%‎)

    carry on

  132. Bart DePalma says:


    You are correct. The FY 2008 had a Bush/Dem Congress deficit. Of course, that is not what the cited “fact checker” was claiming.

    Did anyone catch Obama’s blame Bush moments last night?

  133. Bartbuster says:

    Of course, that is not what the cited “fact checker” was claiming.

    I have no idea what part of the fact checker article that you are referring to. Is this one of your standard “pulling it out of your @ss” moments?

  134. shiloh says:

    Barted ~ Did anyone catch Obama’s blame Bush moments last night?

    No, but we catch your blame Obama moments daily at 538 and “we” are all grateful for your 24/7 obsession … or something.

    take care

  135. Bartbuster says:

    Did anyone catch Obama’s blame Bush moments last night?

    Blankshot, people blame Dumbya for the mess we’re in for good reason.

  136. NotImpressed says:

    But Bartbuster, only Democrats put blame where it belongs. It’s much more fun to make up crap.

  137. Bartbuster says:

    Blankshot, you were blaming Obama for the economic meltdown before he had even taken office. You’re not really in a position to be whining about what people are blaming Dumbya for now.

  138. Mule Rider says:

    Would the moderators please consider banning Bartbuster from commenting?

    He is a parasite that is antithetical to reasonable discourse. There can and will be no civil debate as long as he is around. And put the object of his obsession, Bart DePalma, on the DO NOT ENTER list while you’re at it.

  139. Mr. Universe says:


    Republicans have no problem spending. In fact when Clinton left them a surplus, they diviied out to themselves without a second thought. You may think you’re the kings of fiscal conservancy but really you’re just bank robbers in Reagan’s clothing.

    You have no problem spending taxpayer dollars as long as it’s on what you want it to be.

  140. Mr. Universe says:


    Well, we allow all commentary in here. You of all people should know that. I’ve protected both you and Bart despite your railing against me. I have to provide the same cover for BartBuster. It is telling that your comments are the ones of reason. Thank you for your tolerance.

  141. Max aka Birdpilot says:


  142. Mule Rider says:

    “Thank you for your tolerance.”

    I’ll do what I can to ignore their petty back-and-forth. I sure wish they would take it somewhere else though.

  143. mclever says:

    So, instead of commenting on the back-n-forth between commenters…

    Was there anything besides Salmon or tone that really struck people about either Obama’s speech or the Republican response?

    I thought parksie summed up Obama’s speech pretty well. A workman speech, with just enough in it for everyone to love. Vague, optimistic, bi-partisan, and occasionally very specific. Frankly, it was much more optimistic and “above the fray” than I was expecting, which I thought was a very good thing for our country right now. We’ve had a lot of doom-n-gloom for the past few years, so it was refreshing to hear him talking about the future with such hope and anticipation of what we as Americans can accomplish together. The grand symphony of rhetoric was mezzo-piano instead of fortissimo, but it sounded good for Maestro Obama.

    Then, the Republican rebuttal. It seemed single-note, small-minded and petty after the sweeping orchestration from Obama. Deficits=bad. OK, we get that. But Obama addressed that with as much honesty as any politician ever puts to the issue, so what else have you got? Oh, doom, gloom, destruction and despair if evil Obama continues his wicked ways. Seriously? After what we’d just heard? It felt as tone-deaf as a one-note bugler playing a half-tone flat.

  144. shiloh says:

    Tweety mentioned Ryan said America’s best century will be considered our past century Yea, that will inspire confidence lol whereas Obama mentioned America’s future is still bright and hopeful (((10))) times!


    Hell no, you can’t! …


    Yes we can! 🙂

    The yin and yang of Reps and Dems as the more positive presidential nominee almost always wins, the power of incumbency, notwithstanding!


    The only thing we have to fear is … palin/bachmann 😛

    apologies to FDR …

  145. Brian says:

    I was just flipping through some of the Freepers’ responses to the SOTU, and it seems like they’re getting tired of Fox News. “Enough of this fair and balanced stuff” and similar responses. I find it quite amusing. Oh, and they also loved Bachmann more than Ryan.

  146. mclever says:

    Freepers tired of Fox News?

    I wish I could say I was surprised, but when a group starts trying to out-crazy themselves, they usually succeed.

  147. mclever,
    That analysis was music to my ears.

  148. Mainer says:

    I noticed that as well Brian. Hmmm Faked News Net isn’t conservative enough. Ok so to them fair and balanced would have been to not run the SOTU address and just run the rebutals? Is it possible that even Faked News can have its limits? I wish I could find the name of that site fili said a bunch of the old freepers bolted to I would like to see their take on it.

  149. mclever says:

    Thanks, Michael.

    Sometimes, what I compose actually comes across half as good as it sounded in my head. 😉

  150. Brian says:


    Here’s a quote from one of them:

    “Yes, I wish FOX would cut the ‘fair and balanced’ crap and go straight conservative. Ratings would be higher yet – not to mention ad revenue.”

    There are no limits to crazy.

  151. Brian,
    The scary thing is they might be right!

  152. NotImpressed says:

    Everyone should go here.

    I mean it. Really. Go there now.

  153. shiloh says:

    Would posit most of fixednoise viewership is low income yahoos w/out much consumer power. One flaw in my analysis ~ if they’re low income, they probably can’t afford cable.

    Although basic cable in most areas can be as low as 19.95 a month.

    Have always felt fixed used the Peter Principle re: their audience ie they cater/pander to the intelligence of their viewers. 😛

    garbage in, garbage out …

  154. Bart DePalma says:


    Dude, you post far more to my cyberstalker than I and your posts are far cruder than mine. Don’t presume to lecture me about civility in posting.

  155. Bart DePalma says:

    The GOP House oversight has begun to uncover the Obamacare lies:

    Meanwhile, CBO now states that SS has now entered insolvency and will keep calling in the Treasury IOUs in ever increasing amounts, adding to the deficit as Treasury turns around and borrows money to pay off the IOUs.

  156. shiloh says:

    Again, Bart wah sniffle wah, :::chuckle:::, blood slander, blood libel, porkulus, Obama Care, yada yada yada ie childish rhetoric, name calling DePalma talks about civility ?!?

    As Bartles said previously in this thread ~ :::snort:::

  157. Bart DePalma says:


    Calling you and others on their name calling is not name calling. Calling pork pork is not name calling. Since when is crediting Obama with his signature health insurance program name calling? Is Obamacare now toxic with even you on the left?

  158. shiloh says:

    btw, let the record show:

    Interesting reaction from MSNBC this morning.

    Bartles watches MSNBC as he must have a Mika fetish lol


    ok, ok, a Scarborough fetish 😀

  159. shiloh says:

    Bartles, no need to apologize for your Obama fetish as it’s quite endearing dude!


  160. Mule Rider says:

    “Dude, you post far more to my cyberstalker than I…”

    He may be your stalker, but he has accosted me from time to time, and he did it with regularity back at the old 538. I’m not going to stand down and let him run roughshod over me with snide commentary.

    “…and your posts are far cruder than mine.”

    I challenge you to find a post of mine that can legitimately be considered “crude” in the past month. I realize you can go further back and find plenty, and I ‘ve apologized for the regrettable things I’ve said, but I try not to walk down that road anymore.

    “Don’t presume to lecture me about civility in posting.”

    Civility isn’t the issue. It’s buffoonery. You are one of the reasons liberals are able to (legitimately) complain about conservatives being ignorant blowhards. You spew nonsense every single day that is either accurate but runs afoul of true conservatism or is completely inaccurate just to further your agenda.

    You need to bug off.

  161. shortchain says:

    Let the record show that Bart, who calls Obama a “liar” let for this: “CBO now states that SS has now entered insolvency”

    According to this theory of wealth, anyone who only has 2.4 Trillion in T-bills but whose income this year is less than the bills that are owed this year is “insolvent”.

    I would call that a “big lie”.

  162. dcpetterson says:

    The GOP House has begun to create still more lies about Health Care reform:

    Meanwhile, CBO now states that SS is going to temporarily dig into General Funds to pay for the “payroll tax holiday” that the Republicans were so proud of.

  163. filistro says:

    Mainer… here’s the Freeper Splinter Site…

    They don’t seem all that different from garden-variety Freepers, except they’re bonded by being all pissed off at the Freeper management style. They are now more than 500 strong. It’s done real damage to Free Republic, which I suspect will fold within a few months. There’s nobody left over there but the hardest of hard-core, and they are a nasty, scary, hateful bunch. Nobody could control that group for long.

    It has really upset my anthropological study because most of them changed their screen names to escape retribution at the other site (in the event the new one didn’t take off) and I don’t have time to study writing styles and try to determine who is who.

    Maybe when I get back from holidays I’ll be able to concentrate on it.

  164. Mainer says:

    Thanks fili. I just wanted to get a comparison. I check out several comment sessions on Fox each day as well and the politicians may be trying to play better but out in the hustings it is mean. I suspect that in some dark corner of some DC office building there are FBI or Secret Service types that routinely monitor a number of those sites. There are some serious loose wheels engaging in raging.

  165. dcpetterson says:

    I love how wingers live and die by polls — unless a poll says something the wingers don’t like. Then there’s all sorts of reasons the poll is nonsense.

    Reverse, CBO is meaningless noise. Unless a winger can spin a CBO score to say something the winger likes, then CBO is God.

    Fortunately, wingers don’t expect to be taken seriously. They know they’re just viewed as clowns.

  166. Bart DePalma says:

    The slide in Obama SOTU viewership continues…

    I would not be surprised if half of those viewers bailed by the half hour mark of the speech.

  167. Number Seven says:

    I thought it was funny that Obama made Boehner cry.

  168. Bart DePalma says:

    shortchain says: Let the record show that Bart, who calls Obama a “liar” let for this: “CBO now states that SS has now entered insolvency” According to this theory of wealth, anyone who only has 2.4 Trillion in T-bills but whose income this year is less than the bills that are owed this year is “insolvent”.

    Poor analogy. The government both operates SS and issues the IOUs. The federal government is more like a parent who spends the money which is supposed to go into his kid’s college fund and instead writes himself a note promising to pay for college when it came due. When the kid went to college, the parent paid off the IOUs by charging the tuition bill on her credit card.


    In 2009, the GOP a tax holiday on income taxes as an alternative to the Porkulus.

    In 2010, Obama offered a cut a 2% tax holiday on withholding taxes to limit how much the wealthy could enjoy the income tax relief. The GOP accepted the compromise as better than nothing. It was not a GOP idea.

  169. Jean says:

    SOTU and dueling-Republican/Tea Party rebuttal word clouds at:

  170. Mainer says:

    Fili the internet has allowed people that in the past would have been scattered through out the population and the country to concentrate and feed off each others paranoia. The media bought into the hype and ran with it for ratings making it seem ok and probably larger than it actually is. Then in the last election too many people walked away from the process and the crazies had a field day. The Barts of the world love it and keep feeding it as did the Republican party but there seems to be a growing realization that the whole thing may have been way over done. For Fox to not cover Bachmann seems quite telling. I suspect the hard core teapers are here to stay but that many on the margins that gave them their numbers will drift away quietly as the rage continues and the process to govern grinds to a halt. Then the same media that created them for ratings will comence to deconstruct them for those same ratings and because I think some folks are realizing just how out of touch they are. I know just speculation on my part but one has but to look at Virginia to see a group that is running amok and waking up many people that will wreck havoc on Barts beloved likely voter polls next time around.

    So will the Virginia teapers make it law that products made and sold in Virginia will not have to meet federal standards? Remind me not to eat in Virginia if it does. Childrens toys any one. So what will a manufacturer that still wants to do business in the rest of the country do if they want to stay in business? Move maybe? Ohhhhhh and I bet the first person that dies because a Virginia product didn’t quite measure up will leave behind a very rich family and would not the legislators that created the situation also be some how involved?

  171. dcpetterson says:

    It was not a GOP idea.

    That’s funny, since you were giving the Republicans credit for it when it happened! My gods man, don’t you think people remember your nonsense?

    Social Security adds zero to the Federal Deficit. Republicans want to use the deficit as a excuse to kill it, by lying about how it works. There is a dedicated tax (FICA), which pays for 100% of Social Security costs. If we cut SocSec, we also cut that tax, and the net improvement of the deficit is zero. The Republican meme that cutting SocSec will reduce the deficit can only live among stoopid people.

    Bart, are you trying to convince us that you’re stoopid?

  172. mclever says:


    So, Obama’s main words included People, make, new, jobs, America/n, work, years… Lots of stuff to build a coherent policy around.

    Meanwhile, Ryan’s obsessed with GOVERNMENT and Bachmann’s obsessed with the PRESIDENT. Pretty much what I heard, too.

  173. shortchain says:


    Your analogy displays a shocking level of ignorance for someone who claims constantly to be knowledgeable (in fact, all-knowledgeable) about economics. The pretense that the national (or a state) economy should be run according to the principles of a family is a peculiarly naive attitude for someone who pretends to have studied economics and should therefore understand the difference between microeconomics and macroeconomics.

    Are you trying to plead ignorance to escape the conclusion that you lied?

  174. filistro says:

    Mainer… ever since those first hysterical town halls where people screamed about health care, I’ve been bemused by this whole Tea Party thing. It amazed me that people got on board so passionately. It was like they couldn’t tell the difference between beginnings and endings.

    An astonishing number of people thought this was the beginning of some world-changing new political movement, when it really was an ENDING… nothing more than the end of the greedy destructive Bush years, and the damage they brought to the country (and the world.) It was a cry of pain, fear and outrage. I always knew a rising tide would swamp this leaky boat… that the screamers would only yell as long as they were hurting, and fade away at the first sign of improvement and stabilization. The stock market has recovered, jobs are coming back, the economy is stabilizing, the president is popular, confidence is growing and happy days are here again. In a few months the Tea Party will be as outdated as hipster jeans and muffin tops.

    Some folks sure did make fools out of themselves, though, didn’t they? 😉

  175. shiloh says:

    Remind me not to eat in Virginia if it does.

    Early ’80s the Red Lobster at Lynnhaven Mall, Va. Beach served a plate of (20) jumbo shrimp cocktail for $5.99. 🙂 There was also a few restaurants on the beach which had all you can shrimp cocktail specials on Friday. mmm, I’m hungry!

    btw, Virginia is for lovers 😀 but, but, but they have the worst, god awful drivers, winter weather notwithstanding. Remember visiting a video rental store and Nancy Lieberman/Martina Navratilova were browsing ~ Lieberman was a basketball star at Old Dominion ’76/’80.

    Mentioned previously my fav 2006 election was Jim Webb beating macaca Allen, so I’ll give VA the benefit of the doubt lol especially since Obama was the 1st Dem to carry VA since LBJ in 1964 …

    carry on

  176. Mainer says:

    Fili it is an odd movement. For some thing that was supposed to be this grass roots up rising it in many areas wouldn’t have made decent fake astro turf. That now we have what to all intents is the new Paranoid Anarchist Party calling the shots will erode that base. And as we are already seeing even sleeze bags like Cantor seem to realize they have ridden this political nag about as far as it will take them. I don’t think the movement will disapear but it will be most likely swallowedd by the SOCON groups that already call most of the shots. One of their biggest problems is that they are a movement with out leadership but their collective paranoia will never let an actual leader imerge. Unless some one emerges I don’t see they are stuck with the Palins, Bachmanns and Pauls of the political spectrum hard to gel around leaders that couldn’t get lead any one out of a burning phone booth.

    Shiloh I too like Virvinia and have many many friends there. Many good times around DC and down in the James river area. I love to tour the battlefields and the food has always been pretty good even if I can’t say I ever hit deals such as you speak of. A wonderful state that is going through some difficult times with their new ultra con state gov. Listening to business conections I have there I think that will get sorted out. Virginia is no different than any other state and the business money will relevel the political playing field.

  177. Number Seven says:

    Did anyone catch Obama’s blame Bush moments last night?

    I did notice this comment: “We are living with a legacy of deficit-spending that began almost a decade ago.”

    Obama was incorrect; it started three decades ago 🙂

  178. dcpetterson says:

    Obama was incorrect; it started three decades ago

    True. He should have blamed Reagan. But he knew better than to go after someone that many of his listeners think of as a demi-god.

  179. shiloh says:

    Virginia’s like Florida, a nice place to visit, but you wouldn’t want to live there. One time driving back from OH missed the exit on the 495 beltway and was on my way to Baltimore, instead of Richmond. ~ Shit happens! ~ Became all too familiar w/exit 12, Breezewood on the PA Turnpike.

    Driving to Norfolk/Va. Beach 500/550 miles wasn’t too bad, but driving to Jacksonville, FL 850 miles, was a mother …

    Became all too familiar w/exit 12, Breezewood on the PA Turnpike.

  180. Number Seven says:

    True, I should have said it as a dig to Bart being right, but again, for the wrong reason. But what Bart says does not matter. What is said in a STOU matters and I really think our President should have pointed out the whole truth.

    He plays too nice with the bullies of the Public Con party.

  181. Mainer says:

    I wouldn’t mind it our in the valley Shilohor maybe down around Gaston or Bugs Island you are right about the driving closer to DC. I thought Boston was wild until I drove there. I have no problem driving in and around NYC but I get the shakes any time I fly into either Reagan or Dulles and get a rental car to get some where. When one of my kids lived there I would just have them come get me but they had enough and moved so now it is back to white knuckleing it.

  182. drfunguy says:

    Re. Virginia
    My home state which I left as soon as I was old enough.
    A great place to visit but once I discovered wilderness, food co-ops, curbside recycling, real coffee, real beer and cultural diversity I realized that it is not really very civilized.

  183. Realist says:


    Sounds like either western Washington or western Oregon. I’m leaning toward Oregon.


  184. drfunguy says:

    Corvallis again
    Port Angeles
    now, even better, the Fraser Valley of British Columbia

  185. shiloh says:

    Western Virginia is very scenic, like WV. Every state has their plus and minuses … as again, if a state has to be known for something ie Ohio = library visits 😉 Hey, it could be worse!

    Presidential wise Ohio should be very busy in 2012 as it was in 2008 ie no Republican has ever won the presidency w/out winning OH.

    Remember all those Hillary supporters who were 1,000% convinced Obama couldn’t win OH/PA/FL. Obama winning IN and VA, the 1st time for a Dem since 1964 had to add insult to injury in 2008 lol and gasp! he was an African/American.

    Thank you cheney/bush for changin’ the electoral map 😛

  186. Mr. Universe says:

    Meagan McCain on Michelle Bachmann’s rebuttal:

    Michelle Bachmann is the poor man’s Sarah Palin.

    Meagan McCain is my favourite Republican.

  187. Mr. Universe says:

    @Funguy, MD

    Props, brother.

  188. Bart DePalma says:

    Meagan McCain says: Michelle Bachmann is the poor man’s Sarah Palin.

    Poor bitter Meagan will never forgive Sarah for routinely outshining and outdrawing her husband. My question is why a genuinely nice guy like McCain ended up with such a woman.

    Mr. Universe says: Meagan McCain is my favourite Republican.

    That tells you all you need to know about Meagan McCain RINO status.

  189. Bartbuster says:

    Poor bitter Meagan will never forgive Sarah for routinely outshining and outdrawing her husband.

    Not to mention that CB was a big factor in McSame losing the election.

  190. Max aka Birdpilot says:

    barted: “Poor bitter Meagan will never forgive Sarah for routinely outshining and outdrawing her husband. My question is why a genuinely nice guy like McCain ended up with such a woman.

    Well, Bart, actually McCain PICKED her! Remember, the choice of running mate is pretty much left to the nominee. McCain has no one else to blame for that choice.

  191. drfunguy says:

    @Mr. U (and Monotreme)
    also 6 years in Utah’s Dixie but I don’t really consider that civilized either 😉
    amazing country though! and useful as a civics lesson
    where else do the children belonging to one religion get excused from public school every wednesday afternoon for religious instruction while all others spend it in the classroom as ‘study time’?

  192. mostlyilurk says:

    FYI – Megan McCain is John McCain’s daughter.

  193. shiloh says:

    Barted ~ My question is why a genuinely nice guy like McCain ended up with such a woman.

    Bartles, my question is how a miserable person like yourself, turned out to be such a lowlife, despicable scumbag. Rhetorical question.

    btw, Meagan’s mom Cindy and her dad have (7) homes, so Meagan doesn’t have much to be jealous about re: grifter/charlatan mama grizzly and her oldest daughter Bristol who had an out of wedlock child Tripp as palin’s Roman Catholic family must be soooo proud, eh.

    but, but, but feel free to (((project))) about poor, bitter Meagan and how she will enjoy palin going down in flames as a laughingstock should the Alaskan fraud (((foolishly))) decide to run.

    Bitter indeed as Bartles has been nothing but since Nov. 4, 2008 😀

    apologies to grifter/charlatan lowlife, despicable scumbags.

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